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#26 Aug-24-2014 04:07:pm

NeoPaleo
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Registered: Oct-07-2013
Posts: 143

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

Chevy wrote:

What culture did they come from?

Ok, sorry for the erratic posts today.
The best way for me describe mine and My wife's culture is genizaros.
I have a genetic propensity for the cryptic.
We both have backgrounds that are similar mixed nations.


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#27 Aug-24-2014 04:08:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4350

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

NeoPaleo wrote:

sschkaak wrote:

I trust you.  I just never seem to agree with you.

Hi, I'm sorry. Some of the things I state are out there, and I'm uncertain of the minefield of people's beliefs and do not want to hurt anyone.

Well...  We all have a right to our opinions.  You might be right.  You might be wrong.  Same with me and anyone else here.

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#28 Oct-28-2014 03:52:pm

NeoPaleo
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Registered: Oct-07-2013
Posts: 143

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

Chevy wrote:

What culture did they come from?

hisatsinom, moqui as it was called back then

I am Hopi-Ojibwe
my wife is
Comanche-Chippewa



euoropean roots have not been found, but a family rumor of German Jewish on my side with scant evidence.


-----------

I an not afraid of the word race, It is not scientific. If we were truly different races, when we mated we would have mules for children.
The subject is easier to think about if you think about us (my family) in terms of animals, I have two Chihuahua dogs one albino apple head and one red deer head, both are pure bread dogs(yet look radically different) if they were to mate it is a fact that not even one litter could be predicted on the outcome of the puppies. This is a fact in this particular breed. When you find mixed nations people, you never know what your going to get.
White maybe a skin color, but it is not a race, it may be a mindset-thats politics.
Ive got a picture book that shows native people from california with dreadlocks.

the picture below is of Hopi people.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/___2AcEs6tBI/TOHZiB2vARI/AAAAAAAAAI8/Z8JGhxU_cG8/s1600/Albino%2BGirl%2B10%2Byears%2Bold.jpg


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#29 Oct-28-2014 03:59:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4350

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

You are confusing "race" with "species."  Two different things.  Races are "varieties" of "species," to use the scientific terms.  You're not breeding a horse with a donkey.  You're breeding two varieties of the SAME species.  Who ever said that "race" meant "species."  That's preposterous!

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#30 Oct-28-2014 04:13:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

sschkaak wrote:

You are confusing "race" with "species."  Two different things.  Races are "varieties" of "species," to use the scientific terms.  You're not breeding a horse with a donkey.  You're breeding two varieties of the SAME species.  Who ever said that "race" meant "species."  That's preposterous!

Like the strong genetic differences between a Arabian horse and a quarter horse. The are completely different in almost every way but they are the same species.
  My brother told me about the different biological "quirks" in the different races and how they affect they're health and Ray is right there are big genetic differences between races some of them from interbreeding with other species of Homo such as Neanderthals and Denisovans.


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
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#31 Oct-28-2014 04:21:pm

NeoPaleo
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Registered: Oct-07-2013
Posts: 143

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

NanticokePiney wrote:

sschkaak wrote:

You are confusing "race" with "species."  Two different things.  Races are "varieties" of "species," to use the scientific terms.  You're not breeding a horse with a donkey.  You're breeding two varieties of the SAME species.  Who ever said that "race" meant "species."  That's preposterous!

Like the strong genetic differences between a Arabian horse and a quarter horse. The are completely different in almost every way but they are the same species.
  My brother told me about the different biological "quirks" in the different races and how they affect they're health and Ray is right there are big genetic differences between races some of them from interbreeding with other species of Homo such as Neanderthals and Denisovans.

wink


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#32 Oct-28-2014 04:31:pm

NeoPaleo
Visitor
Registered: Oct-07-2013
Posts: 143

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

sschkaak, what term do you feel comfortable using describing the difference between the Hopi people I pictured above?

I know they are of the same race and species.


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#33 Oct-28-2014 04:44:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4350

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

The term I'd use to decribe their differences is "phenotype"  -  "The physical appearance of an organism as distinguished from its genetic makeup."

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#34 Oct-28-2014 04:47:pm

NeoPaleo
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Registered: Oct-07-2013
Posts: 143

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

sschkaak wrote:

The term I'd use to decribe their differences is "phenotype"  -  "The physical appearance of an organism as distinguished from its genetic makeup."

phenotypes go deeper than the just appearance.


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#35 Oct-28-2014 04:58:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4350

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

That may or may not be true.  Nevertheless, that's the word I would use.  What word would you use?

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#36 Oct-28-2014 06:32:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11101

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

Sorry to interrupt but this photo does have some issues. Can I ask for a source site on this please?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/___2AcEs6tBI/TOHZiB2vARI/AAAAAAAAAI8/Z8JGhxU_cG8/s1600/Albino%2BGirl%2B10%2Byears%2Bold.jpg

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#37 Oct-28-2014 08:22:pm

NeoPaleo
Visitor
Registered: Oct-07-2013
Posts: 143

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

tree hugger wrote:

Sorry to interrupt but this photo does have some issues. Can I ask for a source site on this please?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/___2AcEs6tBI/T … %2Bold.jpg

I guess you could do your own work and google it like I did

Hopi Albino


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#38 Oct-28-2014 08:25:pm

NeoPaleo
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Registered: Oct-07-2013
Posts: 143

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

sschkaak wrote:

That may or may not be true.  Nevertheless, that's the word I would use.  What word would you use?

That is a fine word, as far as deeper. One would have to study the particular features of Albinism to know how deep they go, coupled with thousands of years of isolation and bitter cactus makes for some very unique peoples.


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#39 Oct-29-2014 05:08:am

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

Albinism has nothing to do with race or even Homo sapiens. It's a genetic fart that happens in all types of animals. My family has bred horses and beagles for generations and it just randomly happens.


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
---------------------------------------------------
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This might cause you to experience reason

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#40 Oct-30-2014 02:45:pm

NeoPaleo
Visitor
Registered: Oct-07-2013
Posts: 143

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

I'm going to touch lightly on the fact that even though indians are treated as animals, and sometimes we have to think of ourselves as animals for different reasons and I don't think there is anything wrong with that, or animals. I do have a problem with being called a fart. It is a fact albinos are
murdered because of their condition and it is a fact albinos have been traditionally revered and have grouped together differently in different cultures.
If you need evidence to support the assertion I made about the receive becoming the dominant, look at the livestock as food trade and see all of the white animals being eaten everyday.
maybe I should change my avatar to white bison?


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#41 Oct-30-2014 02:55:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4350

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

I think that's probably a typo for "fact"--though I'll let NP say what he meant by it.  (Maybe, he meant it as "genetic mutation"?)  You're absolutely right about albinos being treated in various ways by different cultures.  To me, they're just human beings (albino people, that is).  One of my favorite blues guitarists is albino:  the late Johnny Winter.  What a very different subject than race, though!

Last edited by sschkaak (Oct-30-2014 03:03:pm)

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#42 Oct-30-2014 02:59:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4350

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

By the way, albinism has no effect on bio-geographical DNA testing.

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#43 Oct-30-2014 03:02:pm

NeoPaleo
Visitor
Registered: Oct-07-2013
Posts: 143

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

sschkaak wrote:

By the way, albinism has no effect on bio-geographical DNA testing.

and the teasing mentioned does not take into account of indian slaves in european gene pool. t/o


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#44 Oct-30-2014 03:06:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4350

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

You really have to be less cryptic.  Teasing who?  If you mean all those Wannabes in the "Hall of Shame" section of this forum--Sorry, they deserve it.  They're not Indians.

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#45 Oct-30-2014 03:09:pm

NeoPaleo
Visitor
Registered: Oct-07-2013
Posts: 143

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

sschkaak wrote:

You really have to be less cryptic.  Teasing who?  If you mean all those Wannabes in the "Hall of Shame" section of this forum--Sorry, they deserve it.  They're not Indians.

See my last post in another thread, its not what I do, its who I am.


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#46 Oct-30-2014 03:14:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4350

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

I get it.

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#47 Oct-30-2014 04:08:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

sschkaak wrote:

By the way, albinism has no effect on bio-geographical DNA testing.

That's what I was trying to say. It knows no biological bounds.


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
---------------------------------------------------
      Warning:  Some Profanity
This might cause you to experience reason

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#48 Oct-31-2014 05:20:pm

NeoPaleo
Visitor
Registered: Oct-07-2013
Posts: 143

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

NanticokePiney wrote:

sschkaak wrote:

By the way, albinism has no effect on bio-geographical DNA testing.

That's what I was trying to say. It knows no biological bounds.

This statement had me giggling last night,  in human cultures the trait has created its own biology because of social stratification, in the wild it would be a fart that would leave the animal vulnerable because of a lack of natural camouflage and an extreme sensitivity to the natural environment . In isolated human communities (before columbustus) the trait was interspersed into the general population and singled out in specific families and clans, thereby normalizing the condition and also creating an entire separate branch of albino traits. Concluding, it became camouflaged!
If you look into the word Caucasian, the recent research has made the word obsolete!


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#49 Oct-23-2016 06:05:pm

NeoPaleo
Visitor
Registered: Oct-07-2013
Posts: 143

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

Chevy wrote:

I've run across, I think my Great Grandmother's brother on a census, and he's listed as Mulatto. Everyone else in the family as white. smile I have to ck this one out more!

Time period, mulato could have been mixed Indian too.


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#50 Nov-03-2016 09:46:pm

NeoPaleo
Visitor
Registered: Oct-07-2013
Posts: 143

Re: Incorrect census. Indian as white, incorrect age.

Continuing, the Novel Gene Mutation OCA Variant was noticed throughout the Americas in the past and present.
In witnessing Blue-green, hazel and grey green eyes. Blonde , flaxen, golden yellow reddish brown even red hair in all tribes in varying degrees.
There are many ethnographic reports of the same with varying descriptions by different authors.
Cleaning up facial bair before a photo shoot was typical as seen in Curtis history.


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