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#1 Apr-21-2016 04:08:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
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DNA tests

For those people who want to find out just how much American Indian blood they have--rather than relying on family tales:  Here you go!  Family Finder test for just $79. 

https://www.familytreedna.com/products. … -110982125

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#2 Apr-22-2016 07:55:am

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11094

Re: DNA tests

That's a great deal. Everyone should do it. big_smile

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#3 Apr-22-2016 08:07:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
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Re: DNA tests

You've done it.  I've done it.  Chevy did it.  Certainly, everybody discussed in this section of the forum should do it.

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#4 May-04-2016 04:26:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
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Re: DNA tests

Tree Beard is posting a lot of anti-DNA articles on his website--none of which have any bearing on racial ancestry DNA test results.  They treat of DNA for personal genealogy.  He just doesn't understand how this works.  Ethnicity (Scottish, Swedish, Italian, Yoruba, Japanese, etc.) is still difficult to decipher, perfectly.  Race (White, Black, East Asian, American Indian) is not.  Why don't you just take the test(s) and see what they say?  Probably, because you already know or fear what the results will show.  Alternatively, provide some verifiable genealogical documentation.  Trying to "prove" that DNA testing isn't accurate doesn't make you an Indian.  I'm betting that someone saying he's 3/8 Indian who gets back a DNA test showing he's 37% American Indian wouldn't say the test didn't work!  Of course, if his result is 0%, then it's the test's fault.  lol

Last edited by sschkaak (May-04-2016 04:31:pm)

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#5 May-04-2016 05:47:pm

tk
Member
Registered: Mar-17-2009
Posts: 111

Re: DNA tests

sschkaak wrote:

Ethnicity (Scottish, Swedish, Italian, Yoruba, Japanese, etc.) is still difficult to decipher, perfectly.  Race (White, Black, East Asian, American Indian) is not.:

UImmm.

I'm a professor of Anthropology (retired). I have taught both Cultural and Physical/Biological Anthropology, most recently at Seton Hall. The former dealing with the concept of "culture' and "ethnicity",  the latter  with "race". Neither should be approached as "easy" or "not." Both are highly complex issues, and *both* are cultural constructs.

Please note: skin color is NOT RACE.

tk

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#6 May-04-2016 06:03:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
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Re: DNA tests

I totally disagree, tk.  The autosomal DNA markers (STR's & SNP's) responsible for phenotypes are quite accurate.  Y-DNA and mtDNA haplogroups are absolutely determinative for race.  (If one prefers the euphemism, "biogeographical" instead of "racial," fine.)  "Cultural constructs"?  Ask anyone if they can assign the proper race to Aretha Franklin, Steve Martin, and Connie Chung and let us know who can't.  The problem with "cultural constructionists" is that they're afraid that "race" means "species," when it means nothing like that.  When I see an obvious White man calling himself an American Indian, and a lot of other non-Indians falling for such bullshit, it makes me cringe.

Last edited by sschkaak (Jun-11-2017 03:35:pm)

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#7 May-04-2016 06:36:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
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Re: DNA tests

http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/01/no … -race.html

"...no matter what genetic markers you choose: SNPs, STRs, no matter how you choose them: randomly or based on their "informativeness", it is relatively easy to classify DNA into the correct continental origin. Depending on the marker types (e.g., indel vs. microsatellite), and their informativeness (roughly the distribution differences between populations), one may require more or less markers to achieve a high degree of accuracy. But, the conclusion is the same: after a certain number of markers, you always succeed in classifying individuals according to continental origin."

"Thus, the emergent pattern of variation is not at all subjectively constructed: it does not deal specifically with visible traits (randomly chosen markers could influence any trait, or none at all), nor does it privilege markers exhibiting large population differences. The structuring of humanity into more or less disjoint groups is not a subjective choice: it emerges naturally from the genomic composition of humans, irrespective of how you study this composition. Rather than proving that race is skin-deep, non-existent, or unimportant, modern genetic science is both proving that it is in fact existent, but also sets the foundation for the study of its true importance, which is probably somewhere in between the indifference of the sociologists and the hyperbole of the racists."

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#8 May-04-2016 06:45:pm

sschkaak
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Re: DNA tests

http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2007/01/race-c … sensus.php

"II. Clusters and race

"The fact that humans cluster together based on genetic information could, in theory, be entirely orthoganal to the concept of race. However, at least in the United States (where this has been explicitly tested), this is not the case. The most important reason for this, in my mind, is that the ancestors of European-Americans and African-Americans were not randomly sampled from the globe (there's a bias towards points on the globe that are quite distant), and this non-random sampling accentuates the genetic differences between the two groups. But in any case, the reasons for this are irrelevant to the argument; let's look at the data.

"The basis for this assertion comes from a paper (open access) by a different set of researchers at Stanford, who assembled a group of Americans who identified themselves as either African-American, white, East Asian, or Hispanic. They followed a similar protocol as the studies in the first section-- they took DNA from all individuals, looked at hundreds of different DNA variants, and applied a clustering algorithm. They then looked to see if their clusters corresponded to self-reported groups. And indeed, in 3631 out of 3636 cases (99.85%), the individuals were clustered by the algorithm into the "correct" racial group.

Last edited by sschkaak (May-05-2016 02:44:pm)

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#9 May-05-2016 09:33:pm

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11094

Re: DNA tests

I'd like to add my two cents. My DNA showed a lot of 'Viking'. That doesn't make me a Viking, nor will it ever.

There are some Native communities being tested to add to the database. Not a lot but there are some.

It really would not change my opinion of DePaul, Tree Beard or others if they found that evidence through DNA...because what you are doing is wrong. Wrong on so many levels.

These test may not be the answers you want, but isn't it worth it to yourselves? Most importantly isn't it worth it to the people that follow your blind words and sketchy genealogy? I guess not because then you would have to admit that you appropriated a culture that is not yours. Continue the genocide through theft.

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#10 Jun-17-2016 06:39:pm

Chevy
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Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: DNA tests

My grandkids are coming to get me for movie night, but I want to come back and post on this post!

I am so happy that I had my d n a tested! I think it's just amazing! smilebig_smiletonguecool

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#11 Jun-21-2016 06:34:pm

Chevy
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Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: DNA tests

DNA tests told me more about my ancestors, and myself, than I could ever imagine. It was way worth more than what I spent.

I really believe that without DNA testing, no one really knows who their ancestors was, nor who they are.

Migration and intermarriage, imho, as told by D N A, is huge.

I was surprised to find I had Jewish dna. When I had my mt (maternal) dna tested, I found my Mother's haplogroup, to my surprise, came from the Iberian Peninsula. Through mt dna, I found, my Jewish dna comes from my Mother. More than that, I found Jewish persons I am an exact match to, spoke to them, and know wherre they came from, i.e. "My wife’s maiden surname was “Raisch”. However, while doing her genealogy, we discovered that the real surname was “Reich”. They came from Europe ca 1883 on the SS Moracia to Castle Garden in New York City.  Elias Raisch (Reich) was born in Odessa, Russia. His family home was Grebow, Austria (now in Poland).

We knew he was Jewish before DNA."


& I have 2 other matches through my Mother, who have Jewish dna through their Mothers. One from Finland.


I found my Father's haplogroup is I M253, probably Norse & that I do have "American Indian" dna, but only a small amount & have Paleo Eskimo, Greenland, Aleut, and of all things, Pima. According to ged match . com. That my dna matches Clovis boy in Montana, Kennewick Man, and even more astonishing (not American Indian) Bot 15 and 17 from Brazil.

https://hawaiiandna.wordpress.com/2015/ … -gedmatch/

I have more information, than I could ever imagine.

I've spoken with an enrolled Creek /Seminole, who I believe I match through my Mother (he didn't know who his Father was, and was searching, and I told him I think we match through the Palones and Stephens), and with an enrolled Cherokee, who I know I match through my Mother, and found information about my Mother's maternal ancestor, a Stephens /Stevens. I've even seen photos of my Cherokee relatives, the Palones, who probably had Finnish ancestors! It's crazy. "Europeans", Welsh, Finnish, etc, came over here early, married Native Americans, and just kept marrying Native Americans.

& I'm pretty sure my G. Grandfather's Father's name wasn't Newcomb. smile but not positive. Out of thousands of matches, I have not one person with the last name of Newcomb. and only a few, on one hand, who have Newcomb in their ancestry.

I have a small amount of "African" dna, from Ethiopia and other places, a lot out of the Caucasus  mountains, a lot out of the Norse countries, from peoples I could not have ever imagined, from India, to Turkey, to the Baltics, to Russia, to Siberia. It's mind-blowing.

I recommend it!cool

Last edited by Chevy (Jun-21-2016 06:43:pm)

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#12 Jun-22-2016 10:57:am

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11094

Re: DNA tests

It really is amazing. It's like you can find out something new every day too.

Do it people. smile

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#13 Jun-22-2016 06:56:pm

Chevy
Member
Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: DNA tests

That's the truth, tree hugger!smilecool


Strangers Agreed to Test Their DNA. But When They See the Results, They Can’t Hold Back.

It’s easy to think there are more things dividing us than uniting us. But we actually have much more in common with other nationalities than you’d think. Their reactions said it all at 2:14…

http://omeleto.com/225291/

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#14 Jun-27-2016 08:26:am

Chevy
Member
Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: DNA tests

I wish I knew more about dna. I thought I was related to this guy through my Mother, but I find that my 2 "cousins" and I, who are only related through my Dad's family / ancestors, and this guy, and another guy, AND a third man, who I am also related to through my Dad's ancestors, All match on one chromosome. So, 3 out of 5, match through my Dad's ancestors, and one out of the 5 I match through only  one particular family in my Dad's ancestry.

Does this mean that the other two, I also match through my Dad's ancestors??

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#15 Jun-27-2016 09:17:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
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Re: DNA tests

You should join the Rootsweb Genealogy-DNA list:  http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/inde … Y-DNA.html

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#16 Jun-27-2016 07:18:pm

Chevy
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Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: DNA tests

Thank you, sschkaak!

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#17 Jul-09-2016 10:03:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
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Re: DNA tests

Here you go!  Speaks for itself:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5HwP8COE-Y

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#18 Jul-21-2016 06:59:pm

Chevy
Member
Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: DNA tests

It's really cool!!cooltongue

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#19 Jul-26-2016 01:38:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11094

Re: DNA tests

Interesting post by Fake Indian Blog...  neutral

http://ancestorstealing.blogspot.com/

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#20 Jul-26-2016 01:56:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
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Re: DNA tests

I saw that.  No point commenting on it, there, since he deletes anything with which he disagrees.  He tries to make light of that Trujillo woman's 26% American Indian DNA, though most Latinos have Indian ancestry.  That Blue Jacket ancestry scam is an old one.  I posted on that nonsense years ago, on the AITF.  In fact, it was DNA which foiled their attempt to link to Blue Jacket.  BTW, you can, most definitely, have any percentage of DNA in your makeup.  It doesn't have to be divided into fourths.  That's blood-quantum!  DNA is genetic makeup, and it doesn't always pass evenly from generation to generation.  Besides which, those percentages have a plus or minus range, so 26% could actually be 25%.

The only thing he's sort of right about is that tribal background cannot be determined by autosomal DNA tests; HOWEVER, Y-DNA testing can determine who the father is; so, in those cases, it CAN determine tribal background.

Last edited by sschkaak (Jul-26-2016 01:59:pm)

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#21 Jul-31-2016 10:20:am

Chevy
Member
Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: DNA tests

sschkaak wrote:

I saw that.  No point commenting on it, there, since he deletes anything with which he disagrees.  He tries to make light of that Trujillo woman's 26% American Indian DNA, though most Latinos have Indian ancestry.  That Blue Jacket ancestry scam is an old one.  I posted on that nonsense years ago, on the AITF.  In fact, it was DNA which foiled their attempt to link to Blue Jacket. BTW, you can, most definitely, have any percentage of DNA in your makeup.  It doesn't have to be divided into fourths.  That's blood-quantum!  DNA is genetic makeup, and it doesn't always pass evenly from generation to generation.  Besides which, those percentages have a plus or minus range, so 26% could actually be 25%.

The only thing he's sort of right about is that tribal background cannot be determined by autosomal DNA tests; HOWEVER, Y-DNA testing can determine who the father is; so, in those cases, it CAN determine tribal background.

Great post, sschkaak! & absolutely facts!cool

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#22 Jul-31-2016 10:48:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
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Re: DNA tests

Thank you, Martha.  Yes, these are facts--NOT beliefs or wishes.

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#23 Jul-31-2016 10:53:am

Chevy
Member
Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: DNA tests

sschkaak wrote:

Thank you, Martha.  Yes, these are facts--NOT beliefs or wishes.

Yes, and you're welcome, and thank you!

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#24 Aug-03-2016 08:52:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
Website

Re: DNA tests

The Family Tree DNA "Family Finder" test is now on sale, at its lowest price ever:  $69.  I urge all--but especially undocumented claimants--to take this autosomal DNA test which has the myOrigins component showing racial (biogeographical) ancestry.  Let us know the results!

https://www.familytreedna.com/family-fi … mpare.aspx

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#25 Aug-06-2016 04:36:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
Website

Re: DNA tests

TB:  Instead of posting, at your site, that lame youtube video on why someone's Native American ancestry might not show up on a DNA test, just take the test.  If you're "at least 3/8" Indian, as you professed to be, on this forum, that's "at least" 37.5% Native American.  There is nothing in this video which explains away that giant percentage of one's DNA!  All this guy did was show what anyone should be able to figure out, themselves:  If the last full-blood Indian in your background is a great-great-great-grandparent, then your genetic inheritance from that person is 3.125%--which is hardly indistinguishable from statistical uncertainty for these tests.

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