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#1 Jun-27-2016 09:36:pm

sschkaak
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Conversations in the Lenape Language - an edit

Conversations in the Lenape Language - an edit

http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/Lingui … Lenape.pdf

This work was put together by Shelley DePaul.  I am not going to comment on anything, in this place, except this book.  The preparer/author is a retired teacher and she has employed her experience as an educator to produce a very good schema for an elementary language learning text.  Unfortunately, it is marred by numerous errors.  Some are not her fault, since she has copied some mistakes that are found in the sources she used.  Others are due to an incomplete knowledge of the language.  I'm calling this an "edit," rather than a "review," because had she had a good editor, who knew the language well, many of the errors could have been found and corrected prior to publication.  I hope to do this in four parts, since this is a 300-page work, and editing it is mind-numbing.  Even though this is not a horrible book, there are plenty enough problems to warrant its inclusion in this section of the Forum.  So, here is part 1.  (The forms inside parentheses are pronunciations--not spellings.)

Page 1 (frame 18)

(seek-ay) should be (suhk-ay)

(seek-soo) should be (suhk-soo)

(ah-hah-sahk) should be (ah-hah-suhk)

(kool-uh-mahl-see huch) should be (kool-ah-muhl-see hehch)

Page 4

naolk(a) should be naxk(a)  [There are no such words as naolk and naolka.  Someone has misheard naxk--which means both "hand" and "lower arm."]

teha should be tehak  [The heart is animate.]

talami should be alami

Page 7

naolk should be naxk

Page 8

(chah-ko-lahk) should be (chah-ko-luhk)

(ahk-wee-ahn-ah) should be (ahk-wee-yahn-ah)

(nuh-wee-kwee-hay-lah) should be (nuh-wee-kwee-huh-lah)

Page 10

wisae = he/she is yellow should be wisawsu = he/she is yellow

siskwinakwe should be siskewinakot  [Someone has coined this word, recently.  It says "it looks like mud."  Traditionally, the Lenape used the same word for "it is brown" and "it is gray" - wipunkwe.  Likewise, for the animate form.]

siskwinakweyo should be siskewinakohttu

Page 11

akohchi should be takohchi

Page 17

wikewama should be wikwahema

Page 18

alemska should be alemske

akohchuwak should be takohchuwak

Page 20

(choo-lehn-sahk) should be (choo-lehn-suhk)

(kah-toop-wee huhch) should be (kah-toop-wee hehch)

Page 23

keskunhakw should be keskunhak or keskunthak

temetosak should be temetosa  [tomatoes are inanimate]

pakima  [This is okay, though pakim can serve for both singular and plural.]

wiyusak should be wiyusa  [meat is inanimate]

Takuu nta should be Takuu ntawi

Page 26

Aonsumikwen should be Aonikwen

keskunhakw should be keskunhak or keskunthak

temetos is inanimate and can't follow na (that/animate)

wiyus is inanimate and can't follow na (that/animate)

nemenehena should be nemenen

Page 27

(pah-leh-nahxk) should be (pah-leh-nuhxk)

(mahx-kay) should be (muhx-kay)

(mahx-soo) should be (muhx-soo)

(ah-too-hahk) should be (ah-too-huke)

(shahk-huke-wee-uhn) should be (shahk-hook-wee-uhn)

(shahk-huke-wee-ahn-ah) should be (shahk-hook-wee-uhn-ah)

Page 28

kweti xaskwim  [What is "one corn"?  An "ear of corn" is a different word - sakwem.]

Page 31

shinki is not a verb nor a prefix.  It's a preverb.  shink- is a root. 

nshinkihena - No such word.

kshinkihena - No such word.

kshinkihemo - No such word.

shinkiyok - No such word.

Page 32

kata is not a verb.  It's a preverb.

nkatamuhena should be nkatatamuhena

katamuhena should be katatamuhena

katamuhemo should be katatamuhemo

ntahpi should be ntapi

Page 35

Nemena silka ("I see ribbons") should be Nemen silka.  [Nemena silka means "I see the ribbons."]

Kewixenineyo oola ("You all cook eggs.") should be Kewixenihemo oola  [Kewixenineyo oola means "You all cook the eggs."]

Chipako katatamenena ("We want shoes.") should be Chipako katatamuhena  [Chipako katatamenena means "We want the shoes."]

newinkatam should be newinkatamen

Page 36

Katatam should be Katatamen

Nkatatam should be Nkatatamen

temetos is inanimate  [It can't be used with Katatala.]

wiyus is inanimate  [It can't be used with Katatala.]

wulhatuwak should be wulhatuneyo

Page 37

siskwinakwe should be siskewinakot

(mway-kah-nay-yoke) should be (mway-kuh-nay-yoke)

(ahwen huch nahn) should be (ahwen hehch nuhn)

Page 38

(Give me the/that shirt, please.) should be (Give me the/that shirt.)

Page 41

siskwinakwe should be siskewinakot

Page 42

tepchehelasa should be tepchehelasak  [tepchehelas ("wagon") is animate.]

wikewama should be wikwahema

Page 43

mpahsenem should be mpahsenemen

kpahsenem should be kpahsenemen

pahsenem should be pahsenemen

papu should be papitun

Page 44

akohchu should be takohchuwi

Hashi mpa should be Hashi aane

Page 45

papuwak should be papu

ntukihelan should be tukihelaan

Siskwinakwe should be Siskewinakot

Page 46

mitkok is animate  [It can't be used with nen (that/inanimate).]

tepchehelas is animate  [It can't be used with nen (that/inanimate).]

Siskwinakwe should be Siskewinakot

Siskwinakweyo should be Siskewinakohttu

aoneyok should be aoneyo

wa she chulens should be yuki chulensak

Page 47

(oh-pay) should be (aw-pay)

(ohp-soo) should be (awp-soo)

Wisasu should be Wisawsu

Page 48

maxke hempes ("red shirt") - You can use independent indicative forms of the verb as "adjectives" or "descriptors," for both inanimate and animate nouns; however, you can also use the participles for both genders of nouns.  Thus, you can say, maxkek hempes; opek lenhaksen; sekek shakhukwiyan; etc.  You can also say, maxsu chulens for "red bird," and so forth with other animate forms.  It doesn't matter whether or not you put these verbal forms in front of or in back of the noun.  They mean the same thing, either way.

wisasit should be wisawsit

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz   (This is where I fell asleep.)

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#2 Jun-28-2016 05:01:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 3937
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Re: Conversations in the Lenape Language - an edit

Here is Part 2 of this edit:

Page 51

mekusa should be mekusak  [This word is animate.]

elikhat should be elikhatink  [This is not a noun.  It is a participle with a conjunct suffix--not a locative suffix.]

elikhata should be elikhatinki  [See previous.]

We've dealt with the color "adjectives," above.

Page 52

elakihele should be alakihele

elakiheleyok should be alakiheleyok

nementami should be nementam  [This is not an intransitive verb.  It is a transitive verb in the absolute state.]

kementami should be kementam  [See previous.]

mwentamu should be mentam  [See previous.]

mwentamuwak should be mentameneyo

tankhitu should be ankhitun

Page 53

kaxksemen should be koxksemen

kaxksemaneyo should be koxksemeneyo

kaxksemena should be koxksemena

kaxksemaneyo should be koxksemeneyo

tonkhitu should be tonkhitun

kementamihemo should be kementamuhemo

wulhatuna should be ulhatuna

maxkamen should be moxkamen

Page 54

siskwinakwe should be siskewinakot

wisasit should be wisawsit

wisasitchik should be wisawsichik

elakihele should be alakihele

mwentamu should be mentam

maxkamen should be moxkamen

elakiheleyok should be alakiheleyok

maxkameneyo should be moxkameneyo

kaxksemeneyo should be koxksemeneyo

kementami should be kementam

nementami should be nementam

kementami hemo should be kementamuhemo

nementamihena should be nementamuhena

Page 55

(gehx-kah) should be (kehx-ah)

Page 62

(xhah-nee-kahk) should be (xhah-nee-kuhk)

teken should be tekene

(tay-kuhn) should be (teh-kuhn-ay)

(keh-koo huch ...) should be (keh-koo hehch...)

(yuh) should be (yu - where u sounds like the u in "pull")

yuho should be yuhoo

Page 64

welathaketak should be welathakechik

chipsitchik should be chipsichik

Lematahpi, mimens should be Lematahpi, nich

Page 65

lematahponen should be lematahpi

Page 67

eli cannot be used with subordinate forms of verbs.  It is used with conjunct forms.

kata = to want should be kata = want to

alemi = to begin should be alemi = begin to

n = I, you (singular), he/she should be n, k, w = 1st, 2nd, 3rd person bound pronominal prefixes

n + en = we (exclusive and inclusive) should be n + en and k + en = we (exclusive and inclusive)

n + eyo = you all, they should be k + eyo and w + eyo = you all and they

eli mpan should be eli paan  [But, this construction is in the conjunct order and shouldn't be in this list.]

Page 68

"Conjunct forms have increasingly fallen out of use."  The entire language has increasingly fallen out of use!

"They ...have increasingly been replaced by independent or subordinate forms in normal conversation."  Only by people who haven't really learned the language; which includes just about everybody on the planet!

Here are the suffixes for conjunct forms: should be Here are some suffixes for some conjunct forms:

Wemiweshkinkwehena ("We are all face") - This formation is impossible.  It would be something like neweminkwihena.

Page 70

(paysh-koong) should be (pehsh-koong)

(tah-nee huch tah) should be (tah-nee hehch k'ta)

(tay-ken-ing) should be (teh-ken-ing)

Wendaxa should be Wentaxa

(wen-dah-hah) should be (wuhn-dah-hah)

(ah-tam) should be (ah-tuhm)

Yuho should be Yuhoo

Page 71

Kalista should be Kelesta

(kah-lee-stah) should be (kuh-luh-stah)

(ik-ah-lee-ah) should be (eek-ah-lee-ah)

yuho should be yuhoo

Page 74

tamakwa should be temakwe

tamakwak should be temakweyok

yakwawi = mastodon should be yakwahe = naked bear  [Richard Adams wrote Yah Qua Whee = mastodon.  The Lenape certainly did not keep the memory of the mastodon alive into the European contact period.  When mastodon and mammoth bones were being dug up in the Ohio country, they were asked if they knew what this animal was and they applied the name of the naked bear to it, since that was the closest match, in size and formidability, in their mythical bestiary.]

yakwawiak = mastodons  [See previous.]

numana should be numhemena

kumana should be kumhemena

kuhemo should be kumhumo

Page 75

lamhitamen should be welamhitamen

tatun should be hatun

Page 76

Shai kpa should be Shai pal

Ku kaski e should be Ku kaski ewi.

Kachi kta should be Kachi ahan

Nich ta should be Ntach

Tani hech wenchi should be Tani hech wenchixen

Page 77

Yuho should be Yuhoo

Page 78

Kalista should be Kelesta

Page 79

(shkah-kok) should be (shkah-kawk)

(well-ee keesh-koo) should be (wuhl-ee keesh-koo)

(ko-neht xhoo soo-kuh-lahn) should be (ko-nah-eht xhoo soo-kuh-lahn)

Yuho should be Yuhoo

Kalista should be Kelesta

(tah-nee huhch) should be (tah-nee-hehch)

(shay nahn) should be (shay nuhn)

Page 80

(kuh-hay-lah) should be (kay-huh-lah)

Kalista should be Kelesta

(pet-hah-kone) should be (peht-hah-kawn)

(ohk sah-sah-puh-lay-huh-lay) should be (awk ...)

(muh-noo-kone) should be (muh-nook-awn)

(nuh-pay) should be (neh-pay)

shiki can be used to describe either animates or inanimates, as opposed to what is said at the bottom of this page.

Page 85

askaskonpatak should be askaskontpachik

mitewile'un ("loon")  This looks like Munsee Delaware "metewihle," to which someone has added 'un, to make the end look like le'un, which is close to "loon."
This can't be done.  The ending, -ihle means "bird."  You can't add an 'un to it!

mitewile'unak  (See previous.)  The plural of metewihle, if it were SU (which it is not), would be metewihleyok.

Page 86

alemi - There is no such verb.  This is a preverb.

ntalemihena - No such word.

ktalemihena - No such word.

ktalemihemo - No such word.

kelenemen should be kwelenemen

kelenemena should be kwelenemena

kelenemeneyo should be kwelenemeneyo

Page 87

Sukelan neli puhenemaok should be Sukelan neli puhenemehtit

Kachi kelukehela should be Kachi kelukehelahan

Hinke - No such word.  Probably, a typo for Chinke, but ???

... ne tepchehelas should be ...na tepchehelas

Page 89

Kalista should be Kelesta

Tolemi is a preverb and doesn't work in either of the two phrases in which it's used, on this page.

Alemiyok - no such word

Ktalemi is a preverb and doesn't work in either of the two places in which it's used, on this page.

Ntalemi is a preverb and doesn't work in the phrase in which it's used, on this page.

Ktalemihemo - no such word

Ntalemihena - no such word

ktalemihena - no such word

Page 90

(nay-huh-nawn-guhs) should be (nay-huh-nah-ohn-gehs)

(nay-huh-nawn-guh-sahk) should be (nay-huh-nah-ohn-geh-suhk)

(moosh-hah-kote) should be (moosh-hah-kawt)

Page 91

(o-wee-ah-lah-soo) should be (o-wee-yah-lah-soo)

(kay-awx-kuhn) should be (kah-o-xhuhn)

(kshah-kuhn) should be (kshah-xhuhn)

Keshihela should be Kshihela

(kuh-shee-huh-lah) should be (kshee-huh-lah)

(nuh-pay) should be (neh-pay)

(xhoo lah-pee knay-wuhl) should be (xhoo luh-pee knay-wuhl)

Page 92

keshihela should be kshihela

Page 96

keshihela should be kshihela

wechilahtu should be wechilahtun

melamen = to smell something should be melamen = to smell it

Page 97

Mata chich xu pemeske should be Mata chich xu pemeskewi

I am leaving one more time should be I am leaving one time

Mata ili awen pe should be Mata ili awen pewi

Kixki pemeskahemo should be Kixki kpemeskahemo

Mata chich xu keshihela should be Mata chich xu kshihelawi

tankhaken should be tankhakan

tankhakenink should be tankhakanink

Tolemi katupu should be Tolemi katupwi

Page 98

Welch should be Weleh

Page 99

(nay-huh-nawn-guh-sah-pee) should be (nay-huh-nah-ohn-geh-sah-pee)

(nay-oh) should be (nay-yoh)

mexkalaniyatak should be mexkalaniyachik

(mehx-kah-lah-nee-yah-tahk) should be (mehx-kah-lah-nee-yah-cheek)

(nool-hahn-duhs) should be (nool-huhn-dehs)

Page 100

Give me my coat please. should be Give me a coat please.

Kalista should be Kelesta

Awossachtenne is Northern Unami.  The Southern Unami form is Osahtene.  However, it is not the correct word to use in this context.  It implies "on the other side of (i.e., in back of) the mountain," not "over (i.e., above) the mountain," where one can see a hawk flying.  Hukweyunk ("up above") would be a better choice.

(Ah-woss-ahk-ten-ay) should be (Uh-wuhs-uh-tehn-ay)  [Not that it matters, here.]

Yuho should be Yuhoo

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#3 Jun-29-2016 09:00:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 3937
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Re: Conversations in the Lenape Language - an edit

After spending about an hour on this, this morning, I have decided to quit this project.  I've come to the realization that Lenape will never again be a living medium of communication between and among any human beings.  (I'm kind of slow!)  It will be--and, for all intents and purposes has been--consigned to relic or artifact status, like a museum curiosity.  Despite its extensive documentation, in three major dialects, it is effectively dead.  Efforts to revive it continue in spurts--each new attempt less fruitful than the last.  Delaware Indians and others have made no real headway in learning more than a few words and phrases.  And realistically, what would be the point in doing so?  We're all melting into a single giant culture, like it or not.  There is no turning back.  Some say they desire to learn, when all they really mean is that they wish they knew the language without having to put enough effort into acquiring it.  It is passing--and has, in fact, passed--into the spirit realm, like the Big House before it.  Everything here is transient.  Lenape is no exception. 

In any case, regarding DePaul's book, I'm confident there's more than enough shown here to demonstrate the many problems with it.

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#4 Jul-02-2016 10:56:am

Suckachsinheet
Member
Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 930

Re: Conversations in the Lenape Language - an edit

I'm afraid I fit into that category. At a time when I had more time, and different motivations, I had been intent on learning the language. But life interfered, and now, while I still think it would be interesting to be able to at least write the language, I find that I would like to learn the language without the necessary effort.

Nevertheless, I commend you for your years of work on the language. You likely deserve an honor banquet as well. I place great value on the lessons you have written, which I have preserved in several formats, thinking I may yet get the time to complete them in my lifetime.


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#5 Jul-02-2016 11:20:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 3937
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Re: Conversations in the Lenape Language - an edit

Thank you for the kind words, Paul.  I completely understand that almost NOBODY really has the time to devote an enormous amount of time into studying a language which nobody else speaks.  There are just too many other things in modern life which have to take priority over this.

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#6 Jul-03-2016 07:39:pm

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 10888

Re: Conversations in the Lenape Language - an edit

sschkaak wrote:

After spending about an hour on this, this morning, I have decided to quit this project.  I've come to the realization that Lenape will never again be a living medium of communication between and among any human beings.  (I'm kind of slow!)  It will be--and, for all intents and purposes has been--consigned to relic or artifact status, like a museum curiosity.  Despite its extensive documentation, in three major dialects, it is effectively dead.  Efforts to revive it continue in spurts--each new attempt less fruitful than the last.  Delaware Indians and others have made no real headway in learning more than a few words and phrases.  And realistically, what would be the point in doing so?  We're all melting into a single giant culture, like it or not.  There is no turning back.  Some say they desire to learn, when all they really mean is that they wish they knew the language without having to put enough effort into acquiring it.  It is passing--and has, in fact, passed--into the spirit realm, like the Big House before it.  Everything here is transient.  Lenape is no exception. 

In any case, regarding DePaul's book, I'm confident there's more than enough shown here to demonstrate the many problems with it.

I've spent days trying to figure out how to reply to this and all I can come up with.. is thank you for all you've done Ray.  It almost feels like I've been at a funeral.


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#7 Jul-03-2016 08:21:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 3937
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Re: Conversations in the Lenape Language - an edit

TH (and all):  You can take heart in the fact that there are many who disagree with me regarding the prospects for the revival of Lenape.

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