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#1 May-23-2016 10:16:am

Kavik
Visitor
Registered: Jul-15-2014
Posts: 131

Help with and Odd "Name" Translation

Hello,

Hoping to get a bit of help with translating a phrase for a colleague of mine - I'm hoping to get this in both NU and SU.

The phrase is "humble doctor among the people" - I believe the intent is that this would be a sort of name/nickname, as opposed to just a phrase, I guess.

My attempt at SU would be something like "Temakmeteinu awenikike" ????

Not sure in the last part if the -ike come before or after the plural.

I think the first part could also ne Temakelensit meteinu" ?? But this construction doesn't seem very idiomatic. 

NU I think might be "Tangelensuwit meteu" ?? I'm not sure the dictionary form is spelt correctly - I would have expected something like "tamagelensuwi" for "humble" and not "tangelensuwit".

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

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#2 May-23-2016 01:46:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4453

Re: Help with and Odd "Name" Translation

Kavik writes:

Hello,

He!

Hoping to get a bit of help with translating a phrase for a colleague of mine - I'm hoping to get this in both NU and SU.

The phrase is "humble doctor among the people." - I believe the intent is that this would be a sort of name/nickname, as opposed to just a phrase, I guess.

That's quite a mouthful for a name!  I don't think it can be reduced to less than three words.  Maybe, two?

My attempt at SU would be something like "Temakmeteinu awenikike" ????

This fellow is not a medicine man or shaman, is he?  If not, I don't think meteinu is appropriate.  If he is a modern medical doctor, then doctel (NU) or ntaktel (SU) is used.  If you're searching for a non-loanword, you could probably use SU kikehwet ("healer") or NU kikehuweet ("physician").  To be honest, I am not absolutely sure how to combine these words, though I believe it would be temakelensikehwet ("humble healer") or tangelensikehuweet ("humble physician").  For me, this would be enough of a name.  It literally signifies "one who humbly heals people."  SU temakelensaktel is "humble doctor" (if such a form can be constructed).  The NU equivalent would be tangelensoctel, of course.

Not sure in the last part if the -ike come before or after the plural.

Neither.  There should be no plural suffix.  Plurality is understood by -ike ("among").  You can't be "among" a single person.  So, just awenike.  Or, NU auweenikeu.  These forms are actually verbs:  "he is among people."  NOTE:  This -ike must be pronounced with stress on the final syllable, -e or -eu.  If stress is given to the initial syllable, -i-, the meaning changes to "there are plenty of people."

I think the first part could also be "Temakelensit meteinu" ?? But this construction doesn't seem very idiomatic. 

That would be fine, except for the choice of word for "doctor."  As pointed out in a previous thread, participles are often used as descriptors (adjectives) in front of nouns.

NU I think might be "Tangelensuwit meteu" ?? I'm not sure the dictionary form is spelt correctly - I would have expected something like "tamagelensuwi" for "humble" and not "tangelensuwit".

Tangelensuwit is correct.  But, meteu is an Indian medicine man, so shouldn't be employed in this context.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

You're welcome.

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#3 May-23-2016 02:23:pm

Kavik
Visitor
Registered: Jul-15-2014
Posts: 131

Re: Help with and Odd "Name" Translation

Thanks very much , Sschkaak!!

Yeah, no idea where that came form, but I was hoping to not use a loanword for doctor - meteu/meteinu is the only one I know, but in this context not the appropriate word. 

Thanks for the clarification of -ike. Interesting aside on the accent (stress is obviously phonemic in Lenape).

Looks like the 'ki-' in both SU and NU kikehwet and kikehuweet get lopped off when the 'humble' form is added; is that normal? Is it because of the 'ki' itself? Just curious why thaqt initial syllable gets chopped off.

Again, thanks very much!

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#4 May-23-2016 02:53:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4453

Re: Help with and Odd "Name" Translation

Looks like the 'ki-' in both SU and NU kikehwet and kikehuweet get lopped off when the 'humble' form is added; is that normal? Is it because of the 'ki' itself? Just curious why thaqt initial syllable gets chopped off.

Actually, it is just the initial letter, k-, which is dropped.  This is the usual practice in suffixation.  In this case, the stem is metelens-, to which is suffixed -ikehwet.  Of course, we have no examples of kikehwet being suffixed to another stem, but this is how I think it would probably be done.

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#5 May-23-2016 03:15:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4453

Re: Help with and Odd "Name" Translation

Mea culpa!  The forms should be temakelenikehwet and tangelenikehuweet.  The stems are temakelen- and tangelen--NOT temakelens- or tangelens-!  Sorry about that.

sad

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#6 May-23-2016 04:10:pm

Kavik
Visitor
Registered: Jul-15-2014
Posts: 131

Re: Help with and Odd "Name" Translation

No problem! - Thanks smile

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