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#51 May-10-2016 01:08:pm

sschkaak
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Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

A different opinion:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/inde … 523AAWV85B

Im with Cool here and I will go one step further. 

The reason you cant find an actual "Cherokee Medicine Wheel" is because there aren't any.
We are NOT Red Road!
We are NOT Sun Bear!
We are NOT White Bison!
We are most definitely NOT New Age!
Virtually all this medicine wheel stuff comes from the Great Bull Clan of the Wah-Nah-Bee tribe who's chief Elders are Shootsda,Fullada and Loda.
If you want to learn actual Cherokee traditions you will have to go to the Rez in N Carolina or to Eastern Oklahoma. You wont find it in books.

Jisdu  5 years ago 

ROFLMAO...you've got to be kidding.... Most medicine wheels will only have the 4 cardinal directions..The colors for "above", "below" and "within" usually aren't shown...

edit:
Yes Jisdu is correct in pointing out that Cherokee's don't use medicine wheels....We all do not adhere to the same customs, cultures, or Spirituality...

Source(s):  enrolled member Eastern Band of Cherokee 

Coolrogue  5 years ago

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#52 May-11-2016 12:02:am

Suckachsinheet
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Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 968

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

Indeed. I forgot to check answers.yahoo.com for reliable information. ROFL myself...


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#53 May-11-2016 06:26:am

sschkaak
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Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

Suckachsinheet wrote:

Indeed. I forgot to check answers.yahoo.com for reliable information. ROFL myself...

I'd say it's at least on a par with http://members.tripod.com/~lil_feathers/

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#54 May-11-2016 09:26:am

tree hugger
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Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

Suckachsinheet wrote:

A response from a Chickamauga Cherokee traditionalist friend:

These people?

https://www.facebook.com/ICTCCCNI

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#55 May-11-2016 11:54:pm

Suckachsinheet
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Registered: Sep-11-2007
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Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

No. My friend, Robert Francis, with the Mid-American Indian Fellowships. He has actual Cherokee ancestry and is a firekeeper at the Daksi Ceremonial Grounds in Missouri. He is a traditionalist and has traditionalist elders. The kind of source sschkaak requested an opinion from. Way better than answers.yahoo.com or the tripod page.


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#56 May-12-2016 06:27:am

sschkaak
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Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

What I got from what your friend wrote is that the Medicine Wheel is NOT a part of traditional Cherokee practice:

The Missouri DOC was really pushing the Medicine Wheel as the primary or central element for "Indian" spiritual groups.  They had learned this from some "Indian" consultants somewhere along the line and were trying to dictate to all their groups that this is how they wanted all the Indians to practice their spirituality.  It was a real sore spot with most:  Cherokees, Lakotas, everyone.  Even so, there are people I know who use this in their spirituality, and I can't argue with that."

If we're going to call every circular construct in the world, used in a religious context, a "Medicine Wheel," then that term becomes meaningless.  We could just as easily call all of them "mandalas," but then that term, too, would lose it's special, particular, original meaning.

Last edited by sschkaak (May-12-2016 06:32:am)

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#57 May-12-2016 07:06:am

sschkaak
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Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

I guess we can call anything by any name we choose, as long as we say what we mean by the name. 

Anyone can adopt the spiritual practices of another culture.  Nothing wrong with that.  But, that doesn't make that practice a part of his own people's "traditional" culture.  At least, not until it has been integrated into his culture for, perhaps, centuries.

I see the Ramapough have adopted the medicine wheel symbolism.  Is it part of Lunaapeew tradition?  No.  Has it become a part of pan-Indian culture?  Yes.

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#58 May-12-2016 10:01:am

tree hugger
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Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

Suckachsinheet wrote:

No.

Whew! smile

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#59 May-13-2016 10:20:am

Suckachsinheet
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Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

Is it that incredible that I may have cultivated an acquaintance with someone who actually knows whereof he speaks or so predictable that I would be bold enough to offer a less than credible source to this august group without noting it as such?

My point was not to demonstrate that the Cherokee traditionally used a Medicine Wheel (or referred to anything as such), but rather to concede that an Eastern nation employed a ceremonial construct that utilized a circle and the four (or six) directions. Likewise, my friend's closing observation about the misguided notions of the Missouri DOC had no real bearing on the remainder of his comments on the subject matter.


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#60 May-13-2016 10:30:am

tree hugger
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Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

Is it that incredible that I may have cultivated an acquaintance with someone who actually knows whereof he speaks or so predictable that I would be bold enough to offer a less than credible source to this august group without noting it as such?

No, I simply asked if that was them because I hadn't heard of them. You can assume I meant whatever you like.

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#61 May-13-2016 11:12:am

sschkaak
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Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

Suckachsinheet wrote:

Is it that incredible that I may have cultivated an acquaintance with someone who actually knows whereof he speaks or so predictable that I would be bold enough to offer a less than credible source to this august group without noting it as such?

Not at all.

My point was not to demonstrate that the Cherokee traditionally used a Medicine Wheel (or referred to anything as such), but rather to concede that an Eastern nation employed a ceremonial construct that utilized a circle and the four (or six) directions.

My main concern was that you said "Eastern nations," not "an Eastern nation."  "Eastern nations" takes in scores of tribes.

Likewise, my friend's closing observation about the misguided notions of the Missouri DOC had no real bearing on the remainder of his comments on the subject matter.

Well, it's not just his closing observation.  He began with, "Yes, what is written here about the "Medicine Wheel" and Cherokees is not bad.  I like the way the author qualifies the first assertion, adding "at least not anciently so".  This is recognition of Cherokee culture as living rather than dead and buried in the past."  What can this mean other than that "they" adopted this practice, recently?

Last edited by sschkaak (May-13-2016 01:51:pm)

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#62 Jun-11-2016 06:46:pm

Suckachsinheet
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Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 968

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

I went to their mini-powwow here in Punxsutawney today. They annoounced that there is a change of venue for the Gathering this year. It will be in Greenhouse Park, near Johnstown, on August 20-21. Fwiw, I had the opportunity to request a source citation for the story about the ribbons and the Indian schools and was given the vague answer that it was an oral tradition the teller had received, though she did not elaborate on whom she had received it from.


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#63 Jun-12-2016 09:50:pm

tree hugger
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Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

Thanks.

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#64 Jun-14-2016 05:15:pm

Suckachsinheet
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Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 968

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

I spent some time this afternoon reviewing Kraft's "Lenape-Delaware Indian Heritage" to refresh my understanding of how much misinformation I heard on Saturday, and be reminded of what an amalgam of misinformation I have retained from 20 years of hanging with the wannabes. neutral


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#65 Jun-14-2016 05:38:pm

sschkaak
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Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

"Better late than never."

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#66 Jun-15-2016 11:21:am

sschkaak
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Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

I still think you should write a book about your experiences, Paul.  Memoirs, maybe?  I believe it would really sell.

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#67 Jun-15-2016 11:49:am

tree hugger
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Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

I agree!

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#68 Jun-15-2016 12:23:pm

Suckachsinheet
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Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 968

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

My journey is far from complete. Tree hugger might still have a piece I wrote a while back about the stages of being a wannabe. It is the unfortunate plight of the sincere enthusiast, one who wishes to rise above being a culturre vulture, to find often that those to whom you once looked for information didn't know much. I won't elaborate, but I heard an explanation offered for a Plains-style horse dance stick that was largely manufactured from whole cloth; there were threads of truth holding together a truly falacious account.


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#69 Jun-15-2016 12:29:pm

tree hugger
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Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

Tree hugger might still have a piece I wrote a while back about the stages of being a wannabe.

Hmm my memory fails me but if it's in email, I'm sure I do still have it lol.

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#70 Apr-05-2018 10:48:am

Suckachsinheet
Member
Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 968

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

Apparently, it is now safe to say that this group has faded into history. The powwow last year was cancelled without much explanation, but the plans for this year were referenced. Now all trace of them on Facebook and elsewhere is no longer in evidence, other than a closed group on Facebook that may or may not have any activity.

To be fair, hosting a powwow is noi small feat. Perhpas the main organizers found it too taxing, or the crowds thinned too much to make it sustainable.


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#71 Apr-12-2018 07:33:pm

tree hugger
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Posts: 11096

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

I totally missed this post.

Apparently, it is now safe to say that this group has faded into history.

That's a good thing IMO.

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