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#26 Sep-03-2014 01:38:am

Suckachsinheet
Member
Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 968

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

I'm not going to attempt to defend any of that, especially the White Buffalo Heart rant at the beginning. I don't recall that Northern dancer at all, but I'd love to hear how he earned all those eagle feathers, in ceremony or otherwise...

But there were a couple of really nice shots of me!! Around 20:36 and 22:58, I believe. White ribbon shirt, red sash and garters... For whatever that is worth...lol


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#27 Sep-03-2014 03:35:pm

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

Suckachsinheet wrote:

I'm not going to attempt to defend any of that, especially the White Buffalo Heart rant at the beginning. I don't recall that Northern dancer at all, but I'd love to hear how he earned all those eagle feathers, in ceremony or otherwise...

You mean those dyed goose feathers.... He needs to brush his teeth. It looks like he's either smoking a tarred up bowl or eating dog shit.
  This is a disgrace. It's the reason people tell me I can't be Indian because I don't own or wear feathers and moccasins. They aren't educating people. They're promoting a incorrect stereotype. Those videos actually have me pissed........


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
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      Warning:  Some Profanity
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#28 Sep-04-2014 01:37:am

Suckachsinheet
Member
Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 968

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

No disagreement, Piney. I guess it is better for him that they are dyed goose feathers. It would take a lot of brass or astounding ignorance for a white guy to display and call attention to real eagle feathers during a broadcast taping.

That would also explain why neither of the dropped feathers looked very authentic from where I was standing... But that is a travesty of another kind...


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#29 Sep-18-2014 11:13:pm

Suckachsinheet
Member
Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 968

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

I suspect some of them did read this thread. They only have to Google themselves to find it. And I imagine our acerbic comments did little to encourage them to read elsewhere on this forum. But we shall see if they even let me through the door henceforth...


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#30 Sep-19-2014 07:50:am

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4347

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

Suckachsinheet wrote:

I imagine our acerbic comments did little to encourage them to read elsewhere on this forum.

Their loss.

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#31 Sep-19-2014 02:40:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

Suckachsinheet wrote:

I suspect some of them did read this thread. They only have to Google themselves to find it. And I imagine our acerbic comments did little to encourage them to read elsewhere on this forum. But we shall see if they even let me through the door henceforth...

They wouldn't take the "advice"..........screw em...yikes


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
---------------------------------------------------
      Warning:  Some Profanity
This might cause you to experience reason

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#32 Sep-20-2014 11:54:am

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11098

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

There were several here reading but not through a google search, apparently the link to this thread was given directly to them.

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#33 Sep-20-2014 12:54:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4347

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

Good.  I hope they took time to look around at the rest of the forum, as well.  I hope they'll speak up, if they have anything to say.

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#34 Oct-28-2014 04:42:pm

NeoPaleo
Visitor
Registered: Oct-07-2013
Posts: 143

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

sschkaak wrote:

NeoPaleo wrote:

Ahh, the white spite. It is a fact that American Indians had "white" bloodlines in the tribes.

Of course they did:  Post-contact.

Not a scientific viewpoint there, you know that right? Did you know that albino recessive becomes dominant when two albinos couple?


What color corn do you grow?

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#35 Oct-28-2014 04:49:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4347

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

Again, unless we agree on the definition of our terms we're just going to keep talking past each other.  When I use the word, "white," in this context, it is obvious that I mean Caucasians--NOT albinos.  Is that not obvious?

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#36 Oct-28-2014 04:52:pm

NeoPaleo
Visitor
Registered: Oct-07-2013
Posts: 143

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

sschkaak wrote:

Again, unless we agree on the definition of our terms we're just going to keep talking past each other.  When I use the word, "white," in this context, it is obvious that I mean Caucasians--NOT albinos.  Is that not obvious?

Thank you for clarity.


What color corn do you grow?

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#37 Oct-28-2014 06:43:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11098

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

NeoPaleo wrote:

sschkaak wrote:

NeoPaleo wrote:

Ahh, the white spite. It is a fact that American Indians had "white" bloodlines in the tribes.

Of course they did:  Post-contact.

Not a scientific viewpoint there, you know that right? Did you know that albino recessive becomes dominant when two albinos couple?

If you have Indian blood or family ties then you are Indian, no matter what you look like. Unfortunately, most try to justify their claims by random theories. I have met (face to face) enrolled, carded Indians that are blonde with blue eyes. What is it you are really going for here? Either you are Indian or not, you can't feel it in your heart.  You can respect the culture, respect the people but there is nothing better for your own soul than to celebrate and embrace your own heritage.. whatever that might be.

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#38 Feb-09-2015 08:49:pm

Suckachsinheet
Member
Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 968

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

There will be another gathering, at the same place, in August. I don't imagine they will stop me from coming, even if they don't want to resolve any of their inaccuracies. And, if all goes well, by then my regalia will be somewhat different, not that that has anything to do with them or the gathering.


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#39 Aug-11-2015 09:31:pm

Suckachsinheet
Member
Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 968

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

This coming Saturday. We'll see how the second edition goes...


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#40 Aug-13-2015 10:36:am

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11098

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

Good luck?

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#41 Sep-08-2015 03:57:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4347

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

Suckachsinheet wrote:

This coming Saturday. We'll see how the second edition goes...

So, how did it go?

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#42 Sep-10-2015 09:14:am

Suckachsinheet
Member
Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 968

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

I went, I danced, I went home. Nothing changed substantively. The logistics seemed better though the PR was lacking. But they don't want to fix any substance issues, they are happy to just let people do whatever. So, I will too.


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#43 Sep-10-2015 10:29:am

Suckachsinheet
Member
Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 968

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

Don't get me wrong; I enjoyed myself. An old friend came out so we sat together and talked. I got some fun t-shirts. I saw a very young male dancer who was amazing for his age. But I skipped the Medicine Wheel teachings and, mercifully, avoided all the New Age characters I knew. I participated, but did not offer my thoughts or abilities to anyone. Thus, I suppose, a good time was had by all...


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#44 Sep-10-2015 11:57:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4347

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

Thanks for the update.

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#45 Apr-25-2016 05:51:pm

Suckachsinheet
Member
Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 968

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

I would offer a correction. Recent research has led me to believe that Eastern nations may have used a medicine wheel of sorts. The circle concept is pretty universal, as are the directions. I ran across a reference to a Cherokee ceremmonial construct using green logs positioned around a sacred fire in the four directions that was referred to as a medicine wheel, even though the source acknowledged that that term was not traditional to the Cherokee.

This does not excuse all my other observations about the Medicine Wheel Teachings at these gatherings, but I would offer that one correction.


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#46 Apr-25-2016 06:00:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4347

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

Suckachsinheet wrote:

I would offer a correction. Recent research has led me to believe that Eastern nations may have used a medicine wheel of sorts. The circle concept is pretty universal, as are the directions. I ran across a reference to a Cherokee ceremmonial construct using green logs positioned around a sacred fire in the four directions that was referred to as a medicine wheel, even though the source acknowledged that that term was not traditional to the Cherokee.

This does not excuse all my other observations about the Medicine Wheel Teachings at these gatherings, but I would offer that one correction.

Would you please share that research with the rest of us, so we can evaluate it?  I remain skeptical that the Lenape ever employed a medicine wheel.

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#47 Apr-25-2016 06:18:pm

tk
Member
Registered: Mar-17-2009
Posts: 111

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

I would also ask that we be specific about the  "directions."  By that I mean, for instance, at Hopi -- where I worked 1980-81 --  the directions (t of them) are not NESW, but "towards" NE SE  SW NW, i.e the maximum sunrise and sunset points, together with UP,  DOWN, and CENTER.

rk

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#48 Apr-29-2016 09:11:pm

Suckachsinheet
Member
Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 968

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

This was the article I found.:
http://members.tripod.com/~lil_feathers/chwheel.htm

I was actually looking for information on the colors of the directions amoing the Cherokee, which I recalled included the color blue. I recognize that this is not a reliable source, but it corresponds with information I received from a Chickamauga Cherokee friend when I originally inquired about the "medicine wheel" among the Cherokee. The key here is that the term "medicine wheel" is not traditional to the Cherokee. But this article does portray a ceremonial construct that features both the circle and the four directions.

I too have no reason to assume that the Lenape used any similar construct. At the time, I was unable to find a reliable source that verified the colors of the directions among the Lenape according to what I was told previously.


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#49 Apr-30-2016 07:06:am

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4347

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

As you say, Paul, "this is not a reliable source."  I see no reason to believe any of this is ancient or traditional.  I'm not even sure that any federally-recognized Cherokee traditionalist would know what this is.  You also say that you "have no reason to assume that the Lenape used any similar construct."  I agree.

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#50 May-09-2016 08:44:pm

Suckachsinheet
Member
Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 968

Re: Laurel Highlands Native American Gathering

A response from a Chickamauga Cherokee traditionalist friend:

"Yes, what is written here about the "Medicine Wheel" and Cherokees is not bad.  I like the way the author qualifies the first assertion, adding "at least not anciently so".  This is recognition of Cherokee culture as living rather than dead and buried in the past.  But yes, if one thinks of a Medicine Wheel only in terms of a very large circle of rocks placed out in a field, such as one might find at Haskell Indian College in Lawrence, Kansas, well no, I don't think that originated with Cherokees, even if there are Cherokees of today who have constructed and use such Medicine Wheels.  On the other hand, yes, the Sacred Fire and Sacred Circle in which the Sacred Fire is maintained in our Chickamauga Cherokee tradition is a wheel in which and from which all the directions or the entirety of the universe are included.  The Osi or sweat house and sweat fire pit is also a wheel.  The Naming Circle is also a wheel, and to the east of the Naming Circle is an upright cross encircled with seven evergreen boughs; this is also a wheel, and most modern Cherokees, I think, would call it a medicine wheel.  Also, when we draw a circle and cross design, or use such a design as a tattoo, we generally call that a medicine wheel, and by the way, east should be at the top, not to the right, at least as I have been taught.  But, in speaking of the large wheel made of stones, several years ago I was serving as a volunteer in corrections for the State of Missouri dept. of Corrections.  The Missouri DOC was really pushing the Medicine Wheel as the primary or central element for "Indian" spiritual groups.  They had learned this from some "Indian" consultants somewhere along the line and were trying to dictate to all their groups that this is how they wanted all the Indians to practice their spirituality.  It was a real sore spot with most:  Cherokees, Lakotas, everyone.  Even so, there are people I know who use this in their spirituality, and I can't argue with that."


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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