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#26 Mar-16-2008 06:02:pm

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Book recalled after 'Native' author exposed as fraud

sschkaak wrote:

What's the actual purpose of this particular list,?   Did someone think Dee Brown or Laura Ingalls Wilder were Indians?

Laura Ingalls Wilder's family were illegal squatters on Osage land. Her father was a known Indian hater and murderer. In his real life picture he looks like Charles Manson for crying out loud.
  Also her "Little House" series portrays some very negative stereotypes of Osages.


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#27 Mar-16-2008 06:10:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4344
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Re: Book recalled after 'Native' author exposed as fraud

NanticokePiney wrote:

sschkaak wrote:

What's the actual purpose of this particular list,?   Did someone think Dee Brown or Laura Ingalls Wilder were Indians?

Laura Ingalls Wilder's family were illegal squatters on Osage land. Her father was a known Indian hater and murderer. In his real life picture he looks like Charles Manson for crying out loud.
  Also her "Little House" series portrays some very negative stereotypes of Osages.

Yes.  And Elizabeth II is the Queen of England.  Neither that, nor what you've posted, here, have any relevance to the questions I asked.  You're answering questions nobody asked.

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#28 Mar-16-2008 06:49:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Book recalled after 'Native' author exposed as fraud

sschkaak wrote:

NanticokePiney wrote:

sschkaak wrote:

What's the actual purpose of this particular list,?   Did someone think Dee Brown or Laura Ingalls Wilder were Indians?

Laura Ingalls Wilder's family were illegal squatters on Osage land. Her father was a known Indian hater and murderer. In his real life picture he looks like Charles Manson for crying out loud.
  Also her "Little House" series portrays some very negative stereotypes of Osages.

Yes.  And Elizabeth II is the Queen of England.  Neither that, nor what you've posted, here, have any relevance to the questions I asked.  You're answering questions nobody asked.

big_smile One day Scaaat. I'm gonna introduce you to some real good Nanticoke kinnikinnick......she wrote about Indians and people consider her authoritive on the subject.


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
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#29 Mar-16-2008 07:30:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
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Re: Book recalled after 'Native' author exposed as fraud

lol   Again:  Yes.  But, Dee Brown wrote about Indian people--and got everything right!  Hence, my questions about this list!

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#30 Mar-17-2008 09:22:am

bls926
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From: Texas
Registered: Oct-21-2006
Posts: 12082

Re: Book recalled after 'Native' author exposed as fraud

sschkaak wrote:

What's the actual purpose of this particular list,?   Did someone think Dee Brown or Laura Ingalls Wilder were Indians?

From the blog:

A wise reader of Native American literature learns to be discerning. Simon J. Ortiz (Acoma), Vine Deloria Jr. (Standing Rock Sioux), N. Scott Momaday (Kiowa), Linda Hogan (Chickasaw), and Louise Erdrich (Turtle Mountain Ojibwe) are a few of the distinguished native voices. Read on, though, for a list of books on Indians by non-Indians, and what Native Americans think of them. And then tell us who your favorite indigenous authors are.

That is all; just a list of books written by non-Indians and what some Indians think about them. Don't think anyone thinks these particular authors are Indian. Damn. That's a lot of thinking.

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#31 Mar-17-2008 10:05:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4344
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Re: Book recalled after 'Native' author exposed as fraud

Oh.  Couldn't figure out Dee Brown's connection with the other four on the list.  So, I guess the purpose of *this list* is to show that four out of five books written about Indians, by non-Indians, are no good?  If that's not its purpose, that *is* its effect.  (I'm not saying this is wrong, by the way.)

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#32 Mar-17-2008 11:51:am

bls926
Administrator
From: Texas
Registered: Oct-21-2006
Posts: 12082

Re: Book recalled after 'Native' author exposed as fraud

sschkaak wrote:

Oh.  Couldn't figure out Dee Brown's connection with the other four on the list.  So, I guess the purpose of *this list* is to show that four out of five books written about Indians, by non-Indians, are no good?  If that's not its purpose, that *is* its effect.  (I'm not saying this is wrong, by the way.)

You do have a valid point there, sschkaak.

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#33 Mar-17-2008 07:05:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Book recalled after 'Native' author exposed as fraud

sschkaak wrote:

Oh.  Couldn't figure out Dee Brown's connection with the other four on the list.  So, I guess the purpose of *this list* is to show that four out of five books written about Indians, by non-Indians, are no good?  If that's not its purpose, that *is* its effect.  (I'm not saying this is wrong, by the way.)

I can see that:

  "Four out of five caucasian authors are full of dooky! So eat your Life Cereal and remember to read Native!"tongue

  "Native Authors- Skin tested, Bon approved!"tongue


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
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#34 Mar-17-2008 07:43:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4344
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Re: Book recalled after 'Native' author exposed as fraud

NanticokePiney wrote:

sschkaak wrote:

Oh.  Couldn't figure out Dee Brown's connection with the other four on the list.  So, I guess the purpose of *this list* is to show that four out of five books written about Indians, by non-Indians, are no good?  If that's not its purpose, that *is* its effect.  (I'm not saying this is wrong, by the way.)

I can see that:

  "Four out of five caucasian authors are full of dooky! So eat your Life Cereal and remember to read Native!"tongue

  "Native Authors- Skin tested, Bon approved!"tongue

Interesting observation, in light of the fact that 9 of the 10 books you recommended at the Lenape Forum were written by Caucasians.    smile

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#35 Mar-17-2008 07:48:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Book recalled after 'Native' author exposed as fraud

sschkaak wrote:

NanticokePiney wrote:

sschkaak wrote:

Oh.  Couldn't figure out Dee Brown's connection with the other four on the list.  So, I guess the purpose of *this list* is to show that four out of five books written about Indians, by non-Indians, are no good?  If that's not its purpose, that *is* its effect.  (I'm not saying this is wrong, by the way.)

I can see that:

  "Four out of five caucasian authors are full of dooky! So eat your Life Cereal and remember to read Native!"tongue

  "Native Authors- Skin tested, Bon approved!"tongue

Interesting observation, in light of the fact that 9 of the 10 books you recommended at the Lenape Forum were written by Caucasians.    smile

Find me some books written by Lenape or Nanticokes, and I don't mean Treebeard.tongue
  Hey! Why don't you post some of the "garbage books" there. So people know not to read them. I've seen your reviews. Scathing.big_smile


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
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#36 Mar-17-2008 07:56:pm

bls926
Administrator
From: Texas
Registered: Oct-21-2006
Posts: 12082

Re: Book recalled after 'Native' author exposed as fraud

NanticokePiney wrote:

"Native Authors- Skin tested, Bon approved!"tongue

What is that supposed to mean? That wasn't my list.

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#37 Mar-17-2008 08:07:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4344
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Re: Book recalled after 'Native' author exposed as fraud

NanticokePiney wrote:

sschkaak wrote:

NanticokePiney wrote:

I can see that:

  "Four out of five caucasian authors are full of dooky! So eat your Life Cereal and remember to read Native!"tongue

  "Native Authors- Skin tested, Bon approved!"tongue

Interesting observation, in light of the fact that 9 of the 10 books you recommended at the Lenape Forum were written by Caucasians.    smile

Find me some books written by Lenape or Nanticokes, and I don't mean Treebeard.tongue
  Hey! Why don't you post some of the "garbage books" there. So people know not to read them. I've seen your reviews. Scathing.big_smile

I think most people who visit these forums are probably sick of seeing my reviews, but maybe I'll post just the links to them.  Lenape authors include Richard C. Adams, Jasper White Owl, David Moses, Robert Adams, Jesse Moses, John Norwood, Helen York Rose, et al.

Last edited by sschkaak (Mar-11-2012 01:43:pm)

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#38 Mar-17-2008 08:22:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Book recalled after 'Native' author exposed as fraud

sschkaak wrote:

NanticokePiney wrote:

sschkaak wrote:

Interesting observation, in light of the fact that 9 of the 10 books you recommended at the Lenape Forum were written by Caucasians.    smile

Find me some books written by Lenape or Nanticokes, and I don't mean Treebeard.tongue
  Hey! Why don't you post some of the "garbage books" there. So people know not to read them. I've seen your reviews. Scathing.big_smile

I think most people who visit these forums are probably sick of seeing my reviews, but maybe I'll post just the links to them.  Lenape authors include Richard C. Adams, Jasper White Owl, David Moses, Robert Adams, Jesse Moses, John Norwood, Helen York Rose, et al.

John Norwood's book is linked here. I am still waiting for my Richard C. Adams book. My old copy was "borrowed-never returned"  over a decade ago.


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
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#39 Aug-31-2008 01:38:pm

Tokipahkinao
Member
Registered: Jul-22-2008
Posts: 212

Re: Book recalled after 'Native' author exposed as fraud

HE! F olks,

                       Every so often, I try to play "catch up" by reading all (and there can be many pages!) of the comments on a specific topic that came up as long ago as March of '08. Therefore, I was just reading:
                                "Books recalled after "Native" authors . . . . "

                       Just a few belated comments:

William "Sauts" Bock  DID  produce  some small books (pamphlets?)  on Lenape topics in a series quite a few years ago. I have a set, profusely illustrated by him.
Lots of weird ideas (my interpretation ). _ I mean, BESIDES the coloring book.

Also, I believe I may have  mentioned it  in an earlier posting:  Sauts  copied word for word, accent mark by accent mark,  the list of "Lenape Place Names in NJ and PA"  on the back inside covers   of Herb Kraft's two earlier, small soft-cover books:  "The Delaware Indians, " (4th  grade reading level) and   "The Indians of Lenapehoking", (8th grade-adult reading level).  This list, bigger than what finally appeared  in the books,  (because she couldn't make any sense of some of the most  distorted names)  had been sent by Herb to Nora Thompson Dean in OK  for translation and interpretation.

These pages showed up on "one sheets' (one page articles) for sale for $1.00 ea.
at the gift shop of Carla Messinger's Museum in Allentown, PA - NO acknowledgement of the author and/or COPYRIGHT of the books!   I  know  Sauts  copied it because I recognized his style of printing letters from a letter I had once received from him.

And Carla Messinger, or someone employed by her, had taken small topic -specific articles from old issues of the  (by then disbanded) newsletter of the Lenni Lenape Historical Society and sold them as "one sheets." Almost ALL of the articles had been submitted by Nora Thompson Dean . I don't remember that we  had  ever copyrighted the LLA news letter - but Nora Dean' authorship was never acknowledged.

                                         I WAS THERE  -  AND AWARE!

                                               Respectfully submitted,

                                                      MaryEllen Flynn

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#40 Aug-31-2008 01:45:pm

Tokipahkinao
Member
Registered: Jul-22-2008
Posts: 212

Re: Book recalled after 'Native' author exposed as fraud

HE! Gang,           

                   I made a mistake: it was the Lenape Land Association of Bucks Co.,
PA that produced the newsletter, NOT the Lenni Lenape Hist. Soc.

                                 Sorry 'bout that!

                                       MaryEllen

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#41 Mar-11-2012 01:54:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4344
Website

Re: Book recalled after 'Native' author exposed as fraud

Just a note:  Today, I edited Message #37, above, to delete the name of "Ruby Cranor" from the list of Delaware Indian authors--since she was not a Lenape (as I've recently found out).  However, I cannot edit the name from Message #38, by Rich, which copied my post.  So, just a heads-up.

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#42 Mar-11-2012 07:26:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11096

Re: Book recalled after 'Native' author exposed as fraud

hmm Dang, I'll take care of Rich's quote in a bit. Thanks for the head's up Sir.

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