Woodland Indians Forum

Pepaxkang · Mar-01-2010 04:52:pm

I was listening to clips of the Fishing Dance (also called the Ferrying or Canoe Dance), a social dance among the Six Nations, and found that many verses (even their order!) were exactly the same as the Go Get'em Dance as I've heard it in the recording on Songs of the Lenape or Delaware Indians, Part 2. And the dance itself is similar.
I wonder what the origins of these dances is? I bet the song and dance goes waaaaay back....

http://www.ohwejagehka.com/fishingdance.htm

You can also find clips of the dance on youtube somewhere.....

Justin

Pepaxkang · Mar-01-2010 04:58:pm

Here's a clip of the dance. Skip to 4:50 -- there are several other dances beforehand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSGJse7q … re=related

lenape · Mar-01-2010 05:13:pm

just watched that video, which is very cool, and the songs are similar in vocals, to some of the "go-get-em" dances I know of, can not say for sure about the recording you mentioned as mine is so poor quality that I gave up on it LOL! The movements of the dances is very different, and seems the Mohawks don't use the water drum in theirs...

Pepaxkang · Mar-01-2010 05:22:pm

The vocals are so similar, it's amazing!
I've never seen the Delaware dance, only heard that recording (you're right, it isn't the best quality)
The other thing I noticed is that they both can have female singing as well, and they also seem to me to have the same concept (of the guys choosing a partner!)
So cool.

lenape · Mar-01-2010 05:36:pm

I *think* I remember reading somewhere that this was also called "horse dance", though I never heard it called that......
the book "Songs of Our Grandfathers, Music of the Unami Delaware Indians" by R.H. Adams is a pretty good source of information on Oklahoma Delaware music, it discusses the sharing and borrowing of many of the songs, so much so that it is hard to track down where exactly they came from, as many are in just vocables. This is seen a lot in the Stomp Dance/Lead Dance, many of the "sets" are the same from the Cherokee to the Lenape to the Seminole, they are not always in the same order, same tone, or same style, but none the less they are almost identical.

There are actually recordings of Delaware Ceremony songs among the Shawnee, apparently from the intermingling and someone decided to put it on a recording...

lenape · Mar-01-2010 05:46:pm

here is a pretty clear recording of the Delaware "Go Get'em Dance"

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor … d=92914200

If you scroll down below the pic of Chet Brooks and click on the speaker icon, the first that comes on is a brief advertisement for NPR, then the song comes on.

Chevy · Mar-02-2010 05:53:am

I'm going to come back tomorrow when it isn't late, to listen to these. Thanks, Pepaxkang and lenape.

Pepaxkang · Mar-25-2010 01:16:pm

I've been listening to a recording of the Bean Dance from the Senecas of the Allegany reservation, and much of it is nearly identical to the Delaware Bean Dance!

lenape · Mar-25-2010 02:29:pm

Pepaxkang wrote:
I've been listening to a recording of the Bean Dance from the Senecas of the Allegany reservation, and much of it is nearly identical to the Delaware Bean Dance!

Yes, these are very similar, and some are exactly the same, there were/are Delaware among that community, hard to say where it originated from. There ceremonial Corn Dance Songs/Planting Songs are similar also, not sure if they are on public recordings or not?!

Pepaxkang · Mar-26-2010 02:29:pm

lenape wrote:
There ceremonial Corn Dance Songs/Planting Songs are similar also, not sure if they are on public recordings or not?!

Wow! Some of the Delaware Bean Dance songs I've heard are nearly identical to some of the Iroquois Corn Dance Songs (Cayuga and Seneca ones I've heard.)

It makes sense to me that the Bean dance (also known as the Friendship or Linking Arms dance among the Iroquois) is so similar to the Delaware Bean dance. But I don't know how to connect the striking similarity between stanzas of the Delaware Bean dance songs I've heard and Seneca/Cayuga Corn Dance songs.

So cool.

lenape · Mar-26-2010 02:40:pm

well, as for the similarities between the stories of origin of the bean dance and the corn dance, as well as the music it would seem that they are almost the same, slightly changed for public use. The modern Delaware Bean Dance is basically the same, either in performance or in music, as other Eastern Peoples "friendship dances", as you compared the Seneca, also while the vocables are different the Cherokee Friendship Dance is similar in performance, as well as the Shawnee and Caddo, etc...

Another example of taking a "closed", or private, song and making it able to be used in public is the Iroquois "Smoke Dance", which was the "War Dance", that became "prohibited by the councils, so to keep the songs alive and used they modified them into the modern day "Smoke Dance" and even allowed women to dance as well as public dances at Powwows and presentations. While most Delaware communities don't traditionally Smoke Dance it has been adopted by those on the Six Nations Reserve, some in Canada, and it has been given to the Lenni Lenape-Nanticoke.

lenape_eela · Aug-29-2010 01:00:am

while there has never been a doubt as to some tribes sharing songs now and even back 4-5 hundred years ago.. theer are some songs that are very similar and some that are very distinct. such as the naha'naltin and then there is the doll dance songs.. i dont pretend to know how the iriqoius sing theirs but we have a bench sitting east with a drummer holding a brass water drum. size 6 top be exact.. it is tied no different than a NAC peyote drum. use only brain tanned hide as commercial will not work in this case.. i use rocks from a 17thy century lenape village from a stream near there.. our naha'naltin is not sung with women. or even so fast in it's beat.. 9 songs in a set. it is a social song used to go out and dance with whom ever you wish. women are not allowed to turn around and look at the man who chooses them to dance with. when he is done deancing with her , he will replace her to the line of women in the front of the singer and then another songs begins after a loud "whoop!~" takes about 20 minutes to dance this song. so if youre too tired, dont try to begin it.. leave it to the younger folks< i think im the only one to sing it .. i learned it from my uncle john sumpter, that learned it from other guys like joe and fred washington, bill shawnee, bill thompson, john falleaf, adn some others too... old traditional delaware singers< <<

oh and yeah,, dont dance around man made fire. use traditional pure fire <

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Nahenaltin/Go get'em Dance

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