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#26 Jan-11-2009 12:23:pm

bls926
Administrator
From: Texas
Registered: Oct-21-2006
Posts: 12082

Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

lenape wrote:

(scatches head...) I know little or nothing about researching this stuff so I can only rely on Sschkaak' s word as being accurate, as it seems to be, how ever what makes me wonder is why would folks who did not associate with him, much less like him(as was the case with NTD) make this claim also, that is confusing to me, despite what the records say, his mother was infact Indian, or there was a lot of tanning booths and hair dye going on back then, LOL.  I also find it interesting that when he was in Oklahoma he could "live out this lie" of being born and raised there, anyone who has spent any time out there knows that that just doesn't happen, especially among the Native population, as well as a "traditional community", there are just too many folks who knew him to make me understand...

  On another note I spent some time looking through census records last night, about 4-5 hours, they are a joke.  While I have no interest in posting my families info here, LOL, according to the records my great grand mother was born in Oklahoma, LOL, that is a few hundred miles off!  There were other "minor" mistakes, the other side of my family doesn't exist in the records.

  Sschkaak, thank you for the information, and the explanations, as with out them this doesn't sink in with me, LOL!

This is definitely some faulty logic. His mother was Indian because she was dark and had black hair? Indians are not the only dark skinned people with black hair. You can't always tell what nationality/race someone is by the way they look. Iron Eyes Cody?

I'm not saying whether I think Hannah was Indian or not; but from what sschkaak has found and posted, if he was it would have to be thru his father, not his mother.

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#27 Jan-11-2009 12:38:pm

lenape
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Registered: Feb-11-2008
Posts: 1779

Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

...

Last edited by lenape (Jan-11-2009 12:42:pm)

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#28 Jan-11-2009 02:37:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
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Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

This is a copy of the birth record for Sam Hannah's mother:

Kentucky Birth Records, 1852-1910

Name: Ethel M Bybee
[Ethel M] 
Birth Date: 6 Sep 1904
Ethnicity: White 
Gender: Female 
Father's Name: David Bybee
Mother's Name: Ella Harris
County of Residence: Madison

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#29 Jan-11-2009 03:23:pm

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11093

Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

lenape wrote:

...

Am I going to have to start stalking you and quoting everything? tongue

Seriously I understand changing our minds about something we've posted, could people at least give a reason in their edits? I promise to do the same as well.

Back to topic.

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#30 Jan-11-2009 03:31:pm

lenape
Member
Registered: Feb-11-2008
Posts: 1779

Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

tree hugger wrote:

lenape wrote:

...

Am I going to have to start stalking you and quoting everything? tongue

Seriously I understand changing our minds about something we've posted, could people at least give a reason in their edits? I promise to do the same as well.

Back to topic.

Sorry, I will start giving a reason!

I decided that what I had to say was useless and was like kicking a dead horse, no pun intended!!

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#31 Jan-11-2009 03:42:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11093

Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

lenape wrote:

tree hugger wrote:

lenape wrote:

...

Am I going to have to start stalking you and quoting everything? tongue

Seriously I understand changing our minds about something we've posted, could people at least give a reason in their edits? I promise to do the same as well.

Back to topic.

Sorry, I will start giving a reason!

I decided that what I had to say was useless and was like kicking a dead horse, no pun intended!!

Ew I wonder why so many people kick dead horses and no other animals? No problem, and I won't stalk you either.

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#32 Jan-11-2009 06:00:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

tree hugger wrote:

Ew I wonder why so many people kick dead horses and no other animals?

You can't kick a dead jellyfish or possum! yikes   eeewwwhhhh!!!! It would be gross.....


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
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#33 Jan-11-2009 08:33:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

mark wrote:

Well, when I kick my live dog . . .  She bites me!!!  dead horses don't bite! lol

I tried kick my cattle dog. He dragged me around the paddock by my pantleg. yikes


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
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#34 Jan-12-2009 01:03:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
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Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

Social Security Death Index

Name: Samuel Hannah
SSN: 294-20-3190 
Last Residence: 44663  New Philadelphia, Tuscarawas, Ohio, United States of America
Born: 30 Nov 1924
Died: 5 May 1996
State (Year) SSN issued: Ohio (Before 1951)

-------------------------------

Note that Sam's SSN was issued in Ohio, sometime between late 1935 (when the Social Security Act was first passed) and 1950.  So, he either came back to Ohio, sometime between these two dates (from Oklahoma, presumably); or, he got his social security number before leaving Ohio (for Oklahoma, presumably)--in which case, his boyhood was spent in Ohio (he was 11 years old by late 1935); or, he never left Ohio, where we know he was in 1930.

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#35 Jan-12-2009 10:18:am

lenape
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Registered: Feb-11-2008
Posts: 1779

Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

sschkaak wrote:

where we know he was in 1930.

I thought he was in Kentucky in 1930?  I may not be getting it, if that's the case just let me know and I will be quiet, LOL!!

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#36 Jan-12-2009 10:28:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
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Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

The 1930 census of Hamilton, Ohio (where he was then living) listed his birthplace as Kentucky, five years before that census. 

(BTW, just a personal note:  This little bit of research is insignificant compared to the years of intense scrutiny I've devoted to my own ancestors who "claimed" to be Indian.)

A couple other things which may, or may not, be significant.  Ancestry.com has a World War II database of 15 million names of those who served, including draft registrations and enlistments.  Can't find this guy in any of them. 

Also, the 1930's are the time of the great dust bowl days in Oklahoma, when people were leaving Oklahoma in droves.  Why would anyone move there during that period?  Doesn't mean they didn't.  Certainly, some folks must have gone there, then.  But, I don't see any evidence that this family did--except for hearsay.

Last edited by sschkaak (Jan-12-2009 10:29:am)

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#37 Jan-12-2009 10:36:am

lenape
Member
Registered: Feb-11-2008
Posts: 1779

Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

Ahhh, I get it, sorry!!!

  Guess he could have gotten the stuff from WW2 at a yard sale, this being the case I guess his entire life and everything that was written about him, as well as those who claim to know him was a lie.  If that is the case then I must question everything that I know about the Delaware...  As if the sources were "wrong" about him who knows what else they "made up", that is not "sarcasm" just opinion, seems he fooled just about everyone he came into contact with, Delaware and white alike....and that he did it at a time,(1950's-on) according to newspapers and books, that it was not cool to be an "indian", even getting involved in "indian politics" during that time was not all that popular....

Last edited by lenape (Jan-12-2009 10:39:am)

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#38 Jan-12-2009 10:43:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
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Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

I'm not saying that, yet--but, it doesn't look good.  BTW, he didn't fool Mrs. Dean.  She called him a "phony."  I have that document.

(Edited to change "Wannabe" to "phony," after double-checking the document.)

Last edited by sschkaak (Sep-11-2014 11:41:am)

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#39 Jan-12-2009 10:47:am

lenape
Member
Registered: Feb-11-2008
Posts: 1779

Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

well if she wrote that, or said it then, I for sure do not know anything about anything as the sources are worthless.

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#40 Jan-12-2009 12:59:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11093

Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

lenape

I think most of us here have been through this, finding out something or someone we believed in wasn't what we thought. I know I have on more than one occasion. neutral

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#41 Jan-12-2009 01:29:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
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Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

I'll second that.  It sucks!  Hope lenape keeps contributing to this forum.  He's got good knowledge base of Lenape history and culture, and is a fine language scholar, as well.

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#42 Jan-12-2009 06:35:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

tree hugger wrote:

lenape

I think most of us here have been through this, finding out something or someone we believed in wasn't what we thought. I know I have on more than one occasion. neutral

Like my own crazy grandfather Wayandaga. I hero worshipped him and Roy (Crazyhorse) Johnson. Roy turned out to be 1/64 Nanticoke and a liar in everything he did.  Wayandaga created most of that mess in P.A.  neutral


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
---------------------------------------------------
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This might cause you to experience reason

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#43 Jan-13-2009 11:47:am

lenape
Member
Registered: Feb-11-2008
Posts: 1779

Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

sschkaak wrote:

I'll second that.  It sucks!  Hope lenape keeps contributing to this forum.  He's got good knowledge base of Lenape history and culture, and is a fine language scholar, as well.

Genomel Sschkaak!

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#44 Jan-13-2009 11:49:am

lenape
Member
Registered: Feb-11-2008
Posts: 1779

Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

I decided to look into some of the other folks who were involved in the various groups that Sam had "ties" to, before the obvious goofballs, and found this interesting:
  Frank "Tom" Pee-Saw, who founded the League of North American Indians, according to the BIA was actually Frank W. Kirk, who they claim to be a con-artist who traveled around stirring up "mixed-breed" groups and tried to organize a political community on the auspice of "standing up for Native Rights...", and who was not enrolled in any "recognized" tribe.  Sounds familiar, LOL.  He was one of the only ones that "stood out", or that was "exposed", I am sure there were others but they kept low enough to stay out of the radar.  This could be a) that this person was a fake, or b) that this person was legit, as a "mixed breed" and the BIA tried to discredit him with the Native Community, either was he seems to have disappeared about 1958-60 at which point Sam Hannah became "president" of the LNAI, not much else about them, a few briefs filed with the BIA on behalf of various "Tribes" with no out come, 1968 "they" seem to have joined in the "Red Power Movement" that was going on, I know they had ties to AIM during and after the Wounded Knee Occupation, and at this point, sometime, it "became" "United Lenape Band".  Some information about "Pee-shaw" can be found in "Termination's Legacy" by Warren Metcalf

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#45 Jan-13-2009 12:55:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
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Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

"...Frank W. Kirk, who they claim to be a con-artist ..."

Interesting.

"Birds of a feather ..."  Looks like Sam was an apt pupil.

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#46 Jan-13-2009 01:08:pm

lenape
Member
Registered: Feb-11-2008
Posts: 1779

Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

kwikwineminakwsite ok kwikwinemaihosite....   -er, ummmm- ....konaet takok ahas sad

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#47 Jan-13-2009 01:33:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
Website

Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

"Quack, quack, quack, quack!"

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#48 Jan-13-2009 01:37:pm

lenape
Member
Registered: Feb-11-2008
Posts: 1779

Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

OR "CAW, CAW, CAW"

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#49 Jan-13-2009 01:43:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
Website

Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

Take your pick!  wink

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#50 Jan-13-2009 01:57:pm

otta
Member
From: Valencia, Pa
Registered: Jan-12-2009
Posts: 55

Re: Sam Grey Wolf Hanna

Just thought I would let you all know that this summer I was invited to the rededication cermony of The Blvd of the Allies.  (it is one of the main streets in downtown Pittsburgh).  It was a real big affair. Their were dignitaries from Greece, Spain, just all kinds of military standing around, yaking about how they did this and yaking about how they did that. There was was this little man there wearing all kinds of brass on his chest, everyone was flocking around to see this man who was a Tuskeegee Airman, and hear of the stories he had to tell.  Well, just let me tell surprised they were to find out that he was a fake.  Heck he even gave speeches at some of the dinners they had. 

Just wanted to add my 2 cents

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