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#26 Sep-02-2008 09:16:am

lenape
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Registered: Feb-11-2008
Posts: 1779

Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

Just a few notes:

  "Lenape umbelical cord bag" - this is a Lakota "style" bag, Lenape buried the umbelical cord in the "garden area" or "around the house" for a girl to draw her spirit closer to the home and garden, and buried it in the woods, or made a slit in a sapling and placed it in there for a boy to draw his spirit closer to the woods(sources: Nora Thompson Dean, Freddie Washington, Jim DeHaven, ect...)  As for the Medicine Wheel, this was/is not a Lenape custom, and the colors used are a "universal" pan-indian thing made "popular" by the AIM beliefs of the four "colors of man".

  "Lenape Moccasins" - dispite these were made in 1998, they are NOT Eastern Woodlands Style even!!!

  "Painted Lenape Drum" - So far as I know there was no records of a hand drum being used by the Lenape, the "Deer Skin Drum" commonly used in the Big House, and the "Wet-skin" or Water Drum were used.

  "Replica of a Lenape Doll" - This speaks for itself, roll, has no historical nor cultural signifigance!!!!

  Mr. Potato Head seems to have gotten a trim, also does it not seem that he has been made to "look older" in comparison" to his other pics?  Could be that his "keepers" read about how "new" he looks, hmmmmmm.

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#27 Sep-02-2008 09:25:am

lenape
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Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

a few quotes from a response I received from Oklahoma:

"....never saw anything of an indian community there but it seems to have grown in numbers in the last five years. i did not know such a "mesingwe" mask existed nor do i know of them doing the "xingwekaon" ceremony. this university study should be checked out....."

"....this is the pretend Indian group that formed to misinform the public about OUR Culture...."

"....I have not seen them do anything Lenape yet......"

  roll

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#28 Sep-02-2008 09:26:am

tree hugger
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Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

I was thinking the same about Mr. Potato Head. I went back to the old pic...


BEFORE

/pb.php?url=http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/woodlandindians/00redhawk.jpg



AFTER

/pb.php?url=http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/woodlandindians/gallery_MeesingMask.jpg

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#29 Sep-02-2008 09:28:am

lenape
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Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

seems they took his makeup off and fixed his "bad hair day", the makeup issue could be the light or flash, I guess...

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#30 Sep-02-2008 03:44:pm

Tokipahkinao
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Registered: Jul-22-2008
Posts: 212

Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

HE! Gang,
   
                     OK - here I go!!! Thanks for the Link to the Pix



                                        U. of Penn. "Lenape " Display:

Row A.   #1:  cloth doll:
                                    Lenape dolls did not have faces, and certainly not one on
                                    on the back of the head. If it's a child's doll, clothing does
                                    not seem to look like Lenape clothes. If it's a doll for the
                                    famous historic "Doll Dance", it should have detailed  cloth
                                    and beaded  Lenape regalia.

             #2:  Corn husk doll:

                                     Just a plain corn husk doll. I've taught 6 year olds to
                                     make them.

              #3:  M'sing Face (Candle holder?)

                                     Never heard of candles in the Big House! And if the                               the M'sing Face is so sacred, when and where do y                                    you light it up?

               #4: M'sing face:

                                      I have seen a M'sing Face in a wonderful Big House
                                      display in a Tulsa museum a few years ago.  This one
                                      looks so crude in comparison. There is a video, narrated
                                      by Curtis Zunigha, about this temporary display. I was
                                      honored to have seen this monumental part of Lenape
                                      history.

                                              More comments to come.

                                                             MaryEllen

PS: I am discussing each row of pix in separate E-mails, because I have been l
known to accidently erase a long reply!

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#31 Sep-02-2008 04:02:pm

Tokipahkinao
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Registered: Jul-22-2008
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Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

HE! Gang,

                 ROW B:

                                   #1.  Thong handled drum - never saw a drum like that
                                          used by Lenape. Turtle design has front flippers that l
                                          look like Pacific Ocean sea turtle. As mentioned before
                                          they had water drums, and the unique skin Big
                                          House drum.

                                    #2.  Why aren't they the traditional Lenape (h istoric) and
                                            modern  center seam, soft-soled moc.? I don't see
                                            over-all, one color beadwork as a Lenape style.

                                    #3.   NO umbilical cord bags! G irl's cord was buried in the
                                            garden so she would grow up to be a good gardener
                                            and food provider for her family. Boy's  cord was
                                            placed in a slit in the bark of a tall, straight sapling,
                                            so he would grow up tall, straight, and strong.

                                     #4.  Never saw that style and shape as Lenape beadwork
                                            and  isn't green and yellow Seneca colors?

                                                                MaryEllen

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#32 Sep-02-2008 04:07:pm

lenape
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Registered: Feb-11-2008
Posts: 1779

Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

http://www.museum.upenn.edu/new/events/ … which=1634

"....made by Taos Drum and given as a gift to the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania in 1985...."

  This was purchased from Taos Drum and there was no "Lenape Nation" in 1985, the "Lenape Nation" was created in 1998, prior to that these folks were a bunch of "misfits" following who ever was in front of them at the time, and it for sure was not around in 1978 as a few Elders from the West came out here, looking for people of Lenape descent and in her words "...while I met some of my people there were not any communities left...", this was after spending time in Bucks County, not far from where Bob Ruth supposedly was part of this mystical "Lenape Nation"

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#33 Sep-02-2008 04:14:pm

lenape
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Posts: 1779

Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

MaryEllen wrote:

"#1.  Thong handled drum - never saw a drum like that
                                          used by Lenape. Turtle design has front flippers that l
                                          look like Pacific Ocean sea turtle. As mentioned before
                                          they had water drums, and the unique skin Big
                                          House drum."

  I think the "front flippers" are suppost to represent crow wings from their "Forth Crow Prophecy", that they claim to be "Ancient" roll

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#34 Sep-02-2008 04:14:pm

Tokipahkinao
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Registered: Jul-22-2008
Posts: 212

Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

HE! Gang,

                 Row 3:

                              1. M'sing ring??? . . . . . .

                              2. wannabees signing with wannabees! I feel that Pennsbury
                                  Manor may have regretted hosting the signing this "Historic
                                 Treaty".

                              3. Ms. Abigail Selden doesn't look   naive . . . . No comment on
                                  the other two.

                                                  MaryEllen

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#35 Sep-02-2008 04:32:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
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Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

Oh!  She looks "naive" to me, MaryEllen!  (She doesn't look "native," though.)  LOL!

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#36 Sep-02-2008 04:33:pm

Tokipahkinao
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Registered: Jul-22-2008
Posts: 212

Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

HE! Gang,

              I had forgotten about the Medicine Wheel.  This is supposed to be sooooo ancient and the colors represent the 4 races: I can see the "White Race" because the European looked so pale in comparison to the Natives. And there were black slaves brought over by the Europeans, therefore the "Black Race"..But did the Natives all really consider themselves as "RED"?, and when did they encounter the "Yellow Race" , i.e. the Chinese/Asians.?

               When the New Sweden Centre of Wilmington, Delaware was allowed to film  part of their video at the Churchville Nature Center's Lenape village, it was to show Swedish traders first meeting the Lenape. Some costumed members of the Lenape interpretors had to be asked to remove medicine Wheels and other inappropriate jewelry and modern touches that had kept into their 1600's Lenape clothing.


                                            I WAS THERE

                                                   MaryEllen

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#37 Sep-02-2008 08:04:pm

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

We use to bury a boy's umbilical cord in a deer track. The medicine wheel came from AIM or Charles Storm ('Seven Arrows') who is a fraud and wanted rapist. It is definately Pan-Indian. neutral
  Who has scanned that article with Potato Head and Posten. I know that dopy thing use to belong to him and he showed it off. I still say it looks like the little guy with the butcher knife in 'Trilogy of Terror'. yikes


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#38 Sep-02-2008 08:40:pm

tree hugger
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Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

hmm I thought that article with Posten was posted here.

Edit..

It is page 12 here http://woodlandindians.org/forums/viewt … 2&p=12

/pb.php?url=http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/woodlandindians/y-mask.jpg

/pb.php?url=http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/woodlandindians/y-posten.jpg

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#39 Sep-02-2008 09:30:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
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Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

Not to put too fine a point on it, but this does NOT say the mask "belonged" to Posten.  It says it was "collected" by his group.  I can remember the Lenape Nation of PA website when both Ruth and Posten were in the leadership, together--before the split.  So, these photos don't prove the mask didn't belong to Ruth.

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#40 Sep-03-2008 04:45:am

tree hugger
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Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

Good point! Thanks.

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#41 Sep-03-2008 11:45:am

lenape
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Registered: Feb-11-2008
Posts: 1779

Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

tree hugger wrote:

Singers:

Chief Bob Redhawk Ruth exhibition co-curator, is currently serving his second term as Chief of the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania (previous term from 1998-2003; current term began in 2007). He has worked for the Lenape Nation since 1976 as Coordinator of Public Outreach, Education Coordinator, Assistant Chief, and Sub-Chief. He is founder of Red Hawk Singers, and co-founder of Red Hawk Singers and Dance Troupe. He received a B.A in Music and Music Education from Combs College of Music in Philadelphia in 1975.

I've never heard of Reese (at least that I can remember). Anyone else on the other activities?

"Red Hawk Singers:
Jim Springfield
Quentin Bear Fuller
Quentin Narcoosee Fuller
Bob Red Hawk
Art Perjing"

  I don't know if they have any new followers, or if all of these folks will be there or not, this is the list of singers from their album cover "Red Hawk Singers, Vol. 3" recorded at the "1998 Cherokee Festival Memorial Day Weekend, hosted by the SOUTHEASTERN CHEROKEE CONFEDERACY OF PENNSYLVANIA, EARTH BAND" roll

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#42 Sep-03-2008 07:10:pm

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

lenape wrote:

SOUTHEASTERN CHEROKEE CONFEDERACY OF PENNSYLVANIA, EARTH BAND" roll

The 'Clueless Nanticoke/Rappahannock/Monacan Club' with Chief Pontiac Firebird Tigerlily.  tongue


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#43 Sep-04-2008 08:20:pm

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
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Posts: 4214

Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

sschkaak wrote:

Not to put too fine a point on it, but this does NOT say the mask "belonged" to Posten. 
It says it was "collected" by his group.

Not handed down by Ruth's family. "collected"......hhhmmmm......hmm


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#44 Sep-04-2008 08:21:pm

lenape
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Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

would love to be a "fly on the wall" in the museum today, LOL lol

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#45 Sep-04-2008 08:23:pm

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

lenape wrote:

would love to be a "fly on the wall" in the museum today, LOL lol

I know this forum has been a hot topic with them. big_smile


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#46 Sep-04-2008 09:28:pm

lenape
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Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

NanticokePiney wrote:

lenape wrote:

would love to be a "fly on the wall" in the museum today, LOL lol

I know this forum has been a hot topic with them. big_smile

Must be our charm...tongue

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#47 Sep-05-2008 08:39:pm

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

lenape wrote:

NanticokePiney wrote:

lenape wrote:

would love to be a "fly on the wall" in the museum today, LOL lol

I know this forum has been a hot topic with them. big_smile

Must be our charm...tongue

neutral   hmm  smile   big_smile lol......I'm having a hard time smiling with all this academic stupidity. Colleges are pretty much "4 year beer commercials" anymore so it really doesn't suprise me...........


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#48 Sep-07-2008 05:08:pm

Tokipahkinao
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Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

HE! Gang,

                       So, this forum has been a "hot topic", huh?

                        BUT IS ANYONE  AT THE U OF PENN MUSEUM REALLY READING, LISTENING,  AND ACTING  ????? .....


                                          MaryEllen

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#49 Sep-07-2008 05:09:pm

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

According to this interview with Bob Ruth, the Lenape Nation of Pa. has 1000 members. I like the discription of the "Harvest ceremonies". yikes

  http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/su … 037771_ITM


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#50 Sep-07-2008 06:47:pm

tree hugger
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Re: Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in "PA"

Tokipahkinao wrote:

HE! Gang,

                       So, this forum has been a "hot topic", huh?

                        BUT IS ANYONE  AT THE U OF PENN MUSEUM REALLY READING, LISTENING,  AND ACTING  ????? .....


                                          MaryEllen

They ARE Reading, as for listening and acting...  hmm

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