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#26 Dec-27-2009 08:26:pm

Chevy
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Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

Neat, and very nice; thanks y'all! smile

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#27 Dec-27-2009 09:28:pm

Pepaxkang
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Registered: Nov-25-2008
Posts: 65

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

Thank you Sschkaak! Looks like I really misunderstood Mr. Heckewelder when I noted that down, lol.....hmm
On the identification of white pine, I would guess he's talking about Pinus strobus. It seems that two species of pines are most commonly distinguished by the Moravians (and others in the 18th century). It makes sense, since the two most common pine species in the old Lenape country are and seem to have been White Pine and Pitch Pine (although Pinus resinosa, the Red Pine, and perhaps even Pinus virginiana may have been grouped with either, most likely Pitch Pine, Pinus rigida.)

I have noticed Pitch pine frequently distinguished in period sources by its being used for torches because of its very resinous wood. Heckewelder distinguishes "cuwe" from the "pindalanac" entry as being "the Yellow kind of pine". Other 18th century authors distinguish Pitch pine from White pine by calling it Black Pine. And in the Brinton dictionary, Rev. Albert Seqaqkind Anthony notes in the entry on the word "Cuwe" that it is "properly p’koweu, it is sticky, alluding to the resin."
In describing the city of New York in late 1748, Peter Kalm writes that:
"The roofs are commonly covered with tiles or shingles; the latter of which are made of the white firtree, or Pinus Strobus (Linn. sp. plant, page 1419.) which grows higher up in the country. The inhabitants are of opinion that a roof made of these shingles is as durable as one made in Pensylvania of the White Cedar, or Cupressus thyoides (Linn. spec. plant, page 1422.)"
from Peter Kalm's Travels in North America, vol. 1, 249-250.

I think I have seen other references from the period to Pinus strobus being called White Pine, so I would think it most likely that Heckewelder was talking about this species. I had never made the connection between quiver and "pindalanac" before! I can imagine the bark making good quivers though... smile  Although perhaps the connection between the tree and quivers is for an entirely different reason? Who knows....tongue It's very interesting though... I want to look into it.

Anischi,

Justin

Last edited by Pepaxkang (Dec-27-2009 09:35:pm)

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#28 Dec-27-2009 09:42:pm

Pepaxkang
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Registered: Nov-25-2008
Posts: 65

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

I found one more interesting thing noted by Peter Kalm!

In describing tar making in Carolina, in which they extracted the resin from dead or live trees, he wrote that "They use only black firs; for the white firs will not serve this purpose, though they are excellent for boards, masts, &c." Peter Kalm's Travels in North America, vol. 1, 280.

OK, I'll stop, back to more Lenape-language oriented stuff...

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#29 Dec-28-2009 12:11:pm

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

Pepaxkang wrote:

Thank you Sschkaak! Looks like I really misunderstood Mr. Heckewelder when I noted that down, lol.....hmm
On the identification of white pine, I would guess he's talking about Pinus strobus. It seems that two species of pines are most commonly distinguished by the Moravians (and others in the 18th century). It makes sense, since the two most common pine species in the old Lenape country are and seem to have been White Pine and Pitch Pine (although Pinus resinosa, the Red Pine, and perhaps even Pinus virginiana may have been grouped with either, most likely Pitch Pine, Pinus rigida.)

I have noticed Pitch pine frequently distinguished in period sources by its being used for torches because of its very resinous wood. Heckewelder distinguishes "cuwe" from the "pindalanac" entry as being "the Yellow kind of pine". Other 18th century authors distinguish Pitch pine from White pine by calling it Black Pine. And in the Brinton dictionary, Rev. Albert Seqaqkind Anthony notes in the entry on the word "Cuwe" that it is "properly p’koweu, it is sticky, alluding to the resin."
In describing the city of New York in late 1748, Peter Kalm writes that:
"The roofs are commonly covered with tiles or shingles; the latter of which are made of the white firtree, or Pinus Strobus (Linn. sp. plant, page 1419.) which grows higher up in the country. The inhabitants are of opinion that a roof made of these shingles is as durable as one made in Pensylvania of the White Cedar, or Cupressus thyoides (Linn. spec. plant, page 1422.)"
from Peter Kalm's Travels in North America, vol. 1, 249-250.

White pine, pitch pine and Virginia pine (bull pine-yellow pine) are all common trees here. White pine grows  upland though, with the Virginia pine and pitch pine mixed together in both lowland and upland areas. Those two (pitch and yellow) are hard to tell apart unless you know trees.


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#30 Dec-28-2009 12:30:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4453

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

"Those two (pitch and yellow) are hard to tell apart unless you know trees."

Lenape (Mission Delaware) actually has two words for 'yellow pine':  cuwe and wisachk.  These could be two words for the same species (the latter, possibly Munsee), or they may designate two distinct species.

Last edited by sschkaak (Dec-28-2009 03:51:pm)

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#31 Dec-28-2009 05:22:pm

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

sschkaak wrote:

"Those two (pitch and yellow) are hard to tell apart unless you know trees."

Lenape (Mission Delaware) actually has two words for 'yellow pine':  cuwe and wisachk.  These could be two words for the same species (the latter, possibly Munsee), or they may designate two distinct species.

I would think "cuwe" would be pitch pine because people here consider it nasty, sticky and a pain in the butt. tongue


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#32 Dec-28-2009 06:51:pm

sschkaak
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Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

...in the Brinton dictionary, Rev. Albert Seqaqkind Anthony notes in the entry on the word "Cuwe" that it is "properly p'koweu, it is sticky, alluding to the resin."

One has to be careful about using Anthony's interpretations.  He sometimes employed folk etymologies or best guesses.  It isn't entirely settled that cuwe derives from p'koweu.  It may just as likely be more closely related to gawi ('porcupine') and gawunsch ('briar')--with a stem meaning "spiny" or "thorny" (with reference to the pine needles).

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#33 Dec-28-2009 10:14:pm

Pepaxkang
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Registered: Nov-25-2008
Posts: 65

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

It may just as likely be more closely related to gawi ('porcupine') and gawunsch ('briar')--with a stem meaning "spiny" or "thorny" (with reference to the pine needles).

That makes sense. Where did you find the word wisachk? I've never seen it before. Do you think it means "yellow wood"?

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#34 Dec-28-2009 10:25:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4453

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

The word, wisachk ('yellow pine') is found in a manuscript vocabulary collected by Abraham Luckenbach.  I do think it means 'yellow wood.'

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#35 Dec-28-2009 10:26:pm

Pepaxkang
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Registered: Nov-25-2008
Posts: 65

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

Thank you!

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#36 Dec-29-2009 08:55:pm

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

sschkaak wrote:

"Heckewelder in his "Names of various trees, shrubs, and plants" says that white pine is called Pindalánac because of its easy-working, straight-splitting wood."

Actually, Heckewelder does not say the word, pindalanac, means this.  He merely notes the pindalanac is an "easy working tree, straight-splitting."  The word, pindalan, means "quiver."  It's etymology is, roughly, 'put in arrows.'  And, the suffix, -ac, means "wood" or, by extension of meaning, "tree." 

I'd rather think Heckewelder was mistaken about the "straight-splitting" quality, than that the quivers weren't made from the wood.  But, who knows, at this late date?  Today, pindalan can mean any kind of quiver, I suppose.  Originally, it must have referred to quivers of white pine, though.

I was thinking about where I saw a wood quiver. Because Southern Algonquians used reeds. It was in a sketch-picture book called "The New England Indians" and it was in two halves but carved out of a single cedar or pine tree. The two halves were hollowed and then bound together. It came from Massachusetts. When I get the book back I'll scan the pic.

Last edited by NanticokePiney (Dec-29-2009 08:56:pm)


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#37 Dec-30-2009 09:43:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4453

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

I'd like to see this!  This might be the proper construction of a pindalan

While we're at it, throw this word into the mix:

ochqui  =  "resinous pine wood"  [from John Ettwein's Delaware vocabulary]

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#38 Jul-11-2010 12:11:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4453

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

13. equoasum,  sunshine beneath clouds

/pb.php?url=http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o128/RayWhritenour/sunset.jpg

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#39 Sep-28-2010 12:16:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4453

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

14. ngiechkami,  my leg is fallen asleep (literally, "I have a leg which is numb")

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#40 Sep-28-2010 12:36:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4453

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

15. gischuch wikheu, a halo around the Sun or the Moon  (literally, "the luminary builds a house")


/pb.php?url=http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o128/RayWhritenour/ringaroundthemoon_zpsc7547e75.jpg[/url]

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#41 Oct-26-2010 01:04:pm

Pepaxkang
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Registered: Nov-25-2008
Posts: 65

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

Every time I see a halo around the moon I say that, lol.

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#42 Nov-12-2010 03:05:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4453

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

16. nannachquomewak, the fish leap

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#43 Nov-12-2010 04:19:pm

Chevy
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Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

Thank you so much for posting these!! I like the one about the halo around the moon too:cool:

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#44 Dec-18-2010 02:22:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4453

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

17. tschatschishamawak, they throw sticks on the snow [i.e., they play the game of snowsnake]

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#45 Dec-18-2010 03:01:pm

Pepaxkang
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Registered: Nov-25-2008
Posts: 65

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

Cool!

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#46 Jan-28-2011 09:02:am

Memexsitat
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From: Binghamton, NY
Registered: Jan-28-2011
Posts: 10

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

Greetings. I am very happy to have stumbled upon this forum! I am of Lenape descent myself, and am beginning to study the language. I have one question that I believe you all might be able to help me with.

Near where I live is a mountain known to the general populace as Maunatome. I believe this to be a disambiguation from a Lenape word. In the pronunciation, Manitou stands out to me, although the change in spelling (while expected) as well as the suffix has me at a loss. I cannot find any history about the place or origin of its name, although I can tell you what I do know.
I live near the Susquehanna River in the hills and woods outside of Binghamton, NY (where the village of Otsinengo once was, among many others).  This particular place in question is not far, across the border in PA, and situated right beside what is known as Great Bend, where the river does an extreme turn. Also nearby are the Red (or sometimes simply Painted) Rocks, also a relic of the ancestors that once lived here. There is a coalescence of many peoples in this area, both Iroquoian tribes as well as Lenape. There are many Lenape cultural and power centers to the south of me (the direction of where Manitome -my preffered spelling- resides), such as Bald Eagle Mountain and Wyalusing. I have delved deep into the history and lessons of this land, and so have my brothers, but this particular mountain whose placename is in question always eludes us. It is a very powerful point along the River, and marks an important place. It is relatively large, both in height and girth, an exceptional thing about it is its shape. It comes to an extreme point compared to the other mountains surrounding it, and is rather triangular in body as well, with the flat side facing the river. There are also Talus caves (glacial scree of great magnitude, giant boulders often stacked atop one another with plenty of cavernous spaces, some of which around us have signs of fire and some even possessing deteriorated signs of ochre) nearby. I tell you these facts in the hopes that they might elucidate some on the mountain, and perhaps have some bearing on the name.

Could any of you help to translate it? Again, it is spelled Maunatome, and pronounced MAW-NUH-TOE-MAY

Thank you in advance, and I look forward to perusing more of this forum, what it has to offer, and sharing where and what I can.


"In our story of Creation, we talk about each one of us having our own path to travel, and our own gift to give and to share. You see, what we say is that the Creator gave us all special gifts; each one of us is special. And each one of us is a special gift to each other because we've got something to share."
-Slow Turtle, Wampanoag

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#47 Jan-30-2011 01:30:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4453

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

I'm stumped.  Can't make anything of it, in Lenape.  It may be from another language, or so badly spelled as to mask its meaning.  Are there any old variant spellings?

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#48 Jan-30-2011 01:57:pm

Memexsitat
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From: Binghamton, NY
Registered: Jan-28-2011
Posts: 10

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

I'm thinking it's possibly Manito with some sort of suffix, but I also don't know much of anything about the language yet, really. Are there any suffixes such as 'me', 'may', or 'ma' that might create such a disambiguation?


"In our story of Creation, we talk about each one of us having our own path to travel, and our own gift to give and to share. You see, what we say is that the Creator gave us all special gifts; each one of us is special. And each one of us is a special gift to each other because we've got something to share."
-Slow Turtle, Wampanoag

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#49 Jan-30-2011 02:00:pm

Memexsitat
Visitor
From: Binghamton, NY
Registered: Jan-28-2011
Posts: 10

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

No older spellings, or even any historical articles that I can find on it, unfortunately. And that's with some serious searching; it is somewhat of a power spot for me and my brothers. It is right near the aforementioned Painted Rocks and across the river from Brandt's Falls.


"In our story of Creation, we talk about each one of us having our own path to travel, and our own gift to give and to share. You see, what we say is that the Creator gave us all special gifts; each one of us is special. And each one of us is a special gift to each other because we've got something to share."
-Slow Turtle, Wampanoag

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#50 Jan-30-2011 02:23:pm

Memexsitat
Visitor
From: Binghamton, NY
Registered: Jan-28-2011
Posts: 10

Re: Unique Lenape words and phrases

Hehe, Brant's Falls, even.


"In our story of Creation, we talk about each one of us having our own path to travel, and our own gift to give and to share. You see, what we say is that the Creator gave us all special gifts; each one of us is special. And each one of us is a special gift to each other because we've got something to share."
-Slow Turtle, Wampanoag

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