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#51 Jan-31-2010 05:35:pm

Gummy Bear
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Registered: Jan-28-2010
Posts: 61

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

sschkaak wrote:

BTW, I emailed Irish and Welsh Gov, like they don't have enough to do, to see what they say about me calling myself "Irish and Welsh" lol.





lollollollollollol


Let me know how that goes.

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#52 Jan-31-2010 06:13:pm

Gummy Bear
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Registered: Jan-28-2010
Posts: 61

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

Chevy is correct about all of this starting with the "Early Settlers" leaving the "NATION" and "They" are no longer a part of the "Cherokee Nation" well we all know how that went over. like a fart in a space suit. The Early Settlers formed their own government. Did any from their newly formed Band give a toot what those guys back in Georgia thought? Well not until they show up on their door step wanting to form a newer Government. So they all (well all most all) wound up out there in Ok. and for the most part they all got along and lived happily ever after (Not). Fast forward till around 1970 when the US Gov abolished their Tribe. Inorder to comply with the new laws Tribes all over the place were re-forming. This is when it all went from a "race" thing to a "Citizenship" thing. The problem is that several of the descendants of those that didn't go to Ok. formed new Tribes too. No biggie... Fast forward till these days. and here we are,,, States like Alabama, Georgia, The Carolina's  and  oh yea let's not forget Tenn. Gave these Tribes recognition.  (still no biggie) Until we get to the internet thingy. Now all of a sudden not only does every new-ager want to be Cherokee but now they have a way to do it. Just sent money to some P.O.Box and poof,,, your an NDN.. Hell I'd bet you could even Pay-Pal it now. Now we have a problem.... Someone is getting rich and it Ain't the CNO. (well they are doing a lot better than the guys in Pine Ridge) but Sure this is a problem that needs to be addressed but,,, Someone went WAY overboard and lumped everyone into the bad apple barrel. So here we are (yea me and you) discussing how to fix this mess.


No body likes my Idea,
Just investigate and find out who the real "FAKES" are and either leave the others alone that have been here as long as the CNO has (in a legal term)  or welcome them to live in peace (on their side if the river that is). If they have something (cultuerly wrong then, lend a helping hand. And then Bust the hell outa the real FAKES. I'm sure the State Tribes that have been around from the time of the 1970s will even help bust them.

But that's only my dumb ass idea.

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#53 Jan-31-2010 06:21:pm

Gummy Bear
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Registered: Jan-28-2010
Posts: 61

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

Or just piss everybody in the US Gov off and welcome everyone (fakes and wannabees too ) into one gigantic Tribe and demand more money fron Uncle Sam. Tee hee heee

Wouldn't that piss off Obama?

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#54 Jan-31-2010 07:22:pm

lenape
Member
Registered: Feb-11-2008
Posts: 1779

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

Gummy Bear wrote:

As for Bastardizing the culture. 
I would dare say that gathering every night in the long house or going to water every morning were very important aspects of traditional Cherokee life. When was the last time that happened in Tahlequah?

Hmmm, not as far back as you might think!  And as for the Clans, in the Cherokee, I will not get into a lot on this as it is not my place to speak on Cherokee Culture, but Cherokee Clans are more that a frame work for marriage, and they are far from "gone" among the 3 Recognized Cherokee and THEIR communities, at the grounds I have been to there are "Clan Beds", however many folks who have Clans choose not to sit in their Clan Bed, not because they "don't know", it is other issues, more culturally sensitive.  There is actually a lot of Cherokee Culture that survives in both OK and Qualla that unless you have been there many would never know, simply because it is kept among their communities and those accepted and invited, many of which are Lenape, Shawnee, and even "Iroquois", as well as other 'displaced' Eastern People.
  Just my 2 cents from what I have personally seen and been part of, these things are far from "gone".

Last edited by lenape (Jan-31-2010 07:30:pm)

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#55 Jan-31-2010 07:34:pm

bls926
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From: Texas
Registered: Oct-21-2006
Posts: 12082

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

Gummy Bear wrote:

<Don't call yourself Cherokee if you aren't following any of the traditional Cherokee beliefs.>

Tell that to my cuz in Ft. Gibson he could care less for Cherokee tradition yet he has a CNO card in his pocket.

He thinks his religion prevents it.



BTW he's still Cherokee too.

Okay, I went a little overboard there. Just trying to make my point . . . You can't keep intact what you like a lot, change what you like a little, throw out what you don't like at all, and make up the rest and call it Cherokee.


Sort of like that horning ceremony we've all heard about. It's no more Lenape than the Walam Olum.

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#56 Jan-31-2010 07:57:pm

bls926
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From: Texas
Registered: Oct-21-2006
Posts: 12082

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

As for full-bloods never accepting thin-bloods . . . That just isn't true. It has never been that way. Chief John Ross was only 1/8 Cherokee. I don't think anyone ever called him a thin-blood or had a problem with him being their chief. With most Cherokee, it's as much about culture as it is blood.

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#57 Jan-31-2010 09:09:pm

sschkaak
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Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

bls926 wrote:

As for full-bloods never accepting thin-bloods . . . That just isn't true. It has never been that way. Chief John Ross was only 1/8 Cherokee. I don't think anyone ever called him a thin-blood or had a problem with him being their chief. With most Cherokee, it's as much about culture as it is blood.

Do you really believe this?  Go back over the old posts at Indianz.com and see all the abuse Steve Russell has taken for being 1/8 Cherokee, from those with much higher Cherokee BQ's.

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#58 Jan-31-2010 09:59:pm

Chevy
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Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

http://digital.library.okstate.edu/ency … RO031.html

ROSS, JOHN (1790-1866)

Principal chief of the Cherokee Indians for nearly forty years, John Ross served during one of the most tumultuous periods of the tribe's history. He is best remembered as the leader of the Cherokees during the time of great factional debates in the 1830s over the issue of relocating to Indian Territory (Oklahoma). As leader of the antiremoval faction he spent a great deal of time in Washington, D.C., attempting to convince government officials to uphold treaties that guaranteed the tribe their lands. Despite finding friends in the East, Ross and his supporters were thwarted in their efforts. Neither Supreme Court decisions nor their own valiant efforts were able to stop the irresistible power of Pres. Andrew Jackson, neighboring state governments, and land-hungry Americans on their borders. Additionally, Ross faced dissent at home from the proremoval Ridge faction, who signed a fraudulent removal treaty with the federal government and sealed the nation's fate. After bitter and sometimes bloody factional quarrels, Ross led the tribe in their forced removal from the homelands in the American Southeast to new Cherokee lands in present northeast Oklahoma, with a capital at Tahlequah. Perhaps as many as one-fourth of the tribe's twenty thousand members died in the crossing that has come to be called the Trail of Tears.

After a period of relative peace and national tranquility, Ross again came to national attention during the American Civil War of the 1860s when he led the tribe through the tense disputes over Cherokee allegiance to the Union. Reluctantly, he accepted alliance with the Confederacy but abandoned the Cherokee Nation when the Federals invaded Indian Territory. He spent a good part of the remainder of the war in Washington, D.C., pleading the Cherokees' cause. At war's end he was able to come home for a short time but returned to the capital city to argue the Cherokee case once more. He died there in 1866. Chief Ross's remains were returned to Tahlequah and entombed in a family plot.

Ross was married twice, first to a Cherokee woman, Quatie, about whom little is known, and with whom he had five children who grew to adulthood, and after her death to a Delaware Quaker woman, Mary Brian Stapler; they had two children. Although never deeply religious, he joined the Methodist Church but continued to own slaves until the Civil War. As a merchant and plantation owner he was financially successful but never wealthy and suffered repeated losses due to federal government policies and the upheavals of the time. He left a legacy of success despite failures. The Cherokees were removed but reunited in Indian Territory to become a vital force in the 1840s and 1850s. And in spite of the divisions of the 1860s, the Cherokees regained sovereignty during Ross's final days.

SEE ALSO: AMERICAN INDIANS, CHEROKEE, INDIAN REMOVAL.

BIBLIOGRAPHY: William L. Anderson, ed., Cherokee Removal: Before and After (Athens: University of Georgia Press, 1991). William G. McLoughlin, Cherokee Renascence in the New Republic (Princeton, N.J.: Princeton University Press, 1985). Gary E. Moulton, John Ross, Cherokee Chief (Athens: University of Georgia Press, 1978). Gary E. Moulton, ed., The Papers of Chief John Ross, 2 vols. (Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1985. Thurman Wilkins, Cherokee Tragedy: The Ridge Family and the Decimation of a People (Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1986).

Gary E. Moulton

© Oklahoma Historical Society


http://digital.library.okstate.edu/chro … 7p315.html

THE CIVIL WAR IN THE INDIAN TERRITORY
1861
By Dean Trickett

The situation was outlined in May, 1861, by Albert Pike, a competent observer, in a letter to the Confederate Secretary of State:

"Since 1835 there have always been two parties in the Cherokee Nation, bitterly hostile to each other. The treaty of that year was made by unauthorized persons, against the will of the large majority of the nation and against that of the chief, Mr. Ross. Several years ago [1839] Ridge, Boudinot, and others, principal men of the treaty party, were killed . . . and the feud is today as bitter as it was twenty years ago. The full-blooded Indians are mostly adherents of Ross, and many of them . . . are on the side of the North . . . The half-breeds or white Indians (as they call themselves) are to a man with us."35

and

In spite of Ross' disclaimer, there is evidence that for a number of years some sort of abolition movement had been on foot among the Cherokees. The Office of Indian Affairs had taken official notice of it early in June, 1860, when Commissioner Greenwood reported to the Secretary of the Interior "that a secret organization has been formed in the Cherokee Nation," and asked that the Secretary of War be requested to detail troops to assist in breaking it up.45 In a letter to Superintendent Rector, written on the same day, Greenwood revealed the source of his information as an article in the Fort Smith Times, which pointed

"to the Jones' as being the leaders in this movement . . It is believed that the ultimate object of this organization is to interfere with the institutions, [i. e., slavery] of that people. . . "46

The Joneses were Evan Jones and his son, John B. Jones, for many years Baptist missionaries to the Cherokees.47 The secret organization was the Keetoowah (Night-hawk) Society,48 the members of which, in contemporary literature, are more often called the Pin Indians.

Nothing seems to have been done about Greenwood's request, and the secret society continued to flourish. The Texans commissioners, after their visit among the Cherokees in March, 1861, reported:

"The fact is not to be denied or disguised that among the common Indians of the Cherokees there exists a considerable abolition influence, created and sustained by one Jones, a Northern missionary of education and


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42Albert D. Richardson, Beyond the Mississippi (Hartford, Conn.: American Publishing Co., 1867), 216.

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43Jos. C. G. Kennedy, Preliminary Report of the Eighth Census, 1860 (Washington: Government Printing Office, 1862), 11.

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44Richardson, op. cit., 216.

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45"Report of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs," in Report of the Secretary of the Interior, 1860 (Washington: Government Printing Office, 1861), 447. A. B. Greenwood to J. Thompson.

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46Ibid., 447-48. A. B. Greenwood to Elias Rector.

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47Joseph B. Thoburn, ed., "The Cherokee Question," Chronicles of Oklahoma (Oklahoma City), II (1924), 228.

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48Ibid., 239.

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Page 325

ability, who has been among them for many years, and who is said to exert no small influence with John Ross himself."49

After the war Albert Pike wrote that he learned in 1861 that the Pin organization

"was established by Evan Jones, a missionary, and at the service of Mr. John Ross, for the purpose of abolitionizing the Cherokees and putting out of the way all who sympathized with the Southern States."

Pike added that he later learned "with certainty" that

"the secret organization in question, whose members for a time used as a mark of their membership, a pin in the front of the hunting-shirt, was really established for the purpose of depriving the half-breeds of all political power. . ."50

The half-breeds themselves belonged to the Knights of the Golden Circle, "a society whose sole object is to increase and defend slavery."51

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#59 Jan-31-2010 10:02:pm

Chevy
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Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

http://digital.library.okstate.edu/ency … RI004.html

RIDGE, JOHN ROLLIN (1827-1867)

John Rollin Ridge (Chees-quat-a-law-ny, or Yellow Bird), Cherokee journalist, poet, and novelist, was born on March 19, 1827, the Cherokee Nation, in present Georgia. He was the son of John and Sarah Ridge. His grandfather, Major Ridge, an influential Cherokee leader, together with Ridge's father and other family members, signed the 1835 New Echota treaty. This agreement sold Cherokee land in the East for land in what is now Oklahoma, a move that was seen by some Cherokees as the cause of the Trail of Tears. In accordance with the treaty, the Ridge family relocated to the Honey Creek area of the Cherokee Nation, near the present Oklahoma-Missouri border. When Ridge was twelve, assassins from a Cherokee party opposed to the signing of the New Echota treaty stabbed his father to death in front of his family. Fearing for their safety, the family moved to Arkansas.

Ridge was educated in Arkansas and later in Massachusetts, after which he returned to manage a farm on the family's Honey Creek settlement. In 1847 he married an Arkansas woman named Elizabeth Wilson. Violence again entered Ridge's life in 1849, when, during an argument over a horse, he killed a man loyal to the faction that had killed his father. Certain that he would not receive a fair trial, Ridge fled to California.

After an unsuccessful attempt at gold mining, he found employment writing for various California newspapers. In 1854 he published the first novel ever written by an American Indian, The Life and Adventures of Joaquín Murieta, the Celebrated California Bandit. Due to pirated editions Ridge's novel, though widely read, was not financially successful. After the Civil War he helped establish the peace treaty between the Southern Cherokee Nation and the United States. Ridge died in Grass Valley, California, on October 5, 1867.

SEE ALSO: CHEROKEE, LITERATURE AND WRITERS, JOHN RIDGE.

BIBLIOGRAPHY: James W. Parins, John Rollin Ridge: His Life and Works (Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press, 1991). James W. Parins, "John Rollin Ridge," in Handbook of Native American Literature, ed. Andrew Wiget (New York: Garland Press, 1996). Thurman Wilkins, Cherokee Tragedy: The Story of the Ridge Family and the Decimation of a People (New York: MacMillan Publishing Co., Inc. , 1970).

Matthew Wynn Sivils

© Oklahoma Historical Society

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#60 Jan-31-2010 10:05:pm

Chevy
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Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

http://digital.library.okstate.edu/ency … WA040.html

WATIE, STAND (1806-1871)

Born on December 12, 1806, near New Echota in the Cherokee Nation, East, in present Gordon County, Georgia, Stand Watie was given the Cherokee name Degadoga, meaning "he stands," at birth. He was a son of a full-blood Cherokee named Oo-wa-tie and his half-blood wife, Susanna Reese. When Oo-wa-tie was baptized into the Moravian Church as David Watie, he renamed Degodoga Isaac S. Watie; Watie later dropped Isaac and combined his Cherokee and Christian names into Stand Watie.

Watie's older brother was named Buck, but he changed his name to Elias Boudinot. Watie's uncle was the Ridge, who became known as Major Ridge, and his cousin was John Ridge. Together they formed the powerful Ridge-Watie-Boudinot faction in Cherokee politics.

Watie received his formal education at the Moravian Mission School at Springplace, Georgia. He remained aloof from tribal politics until 1836 when he signed the Treaty of New Echota, by which in 1835 a group of Cherokees surrendered the ancient Cherokee homeland for a new domain in present Oklahoma. The Ridge-Watie-Boudinot faction migrated to the Cherokee Nation, West, with little difficulty in March 1837. Watie established his home in the northeastern corner of the Cherokee Nation, along Honey Creek.

As a signatory of the removal treaty Watie had forfeited his life under the Cherokee blood law, which prescribed the death penalty for anyone alienating tribal land. When the penalty was extracted in June 1839, only Watie among Major Ridge, John Ridge, and Elias Boudinot escaped execution. Thrust into the forefront of Cherokee politics by the killings, Watie became the lifelong enemy of Cherokee Chief John Ross.

With the onset of the American Civil War Ross wavered in forming a Cherokee-Confederate alliance. However, Watie accepted a commission as a colonel in the Confederate States Army and raised the First Regiment of Cherokee Mounted Volunteers. Fearing a coup, Ross reluctantly agreed to a Cherokee-Confederate alliance. However, when the opportunity arose, Ross fled to Federal-controlled territory. In August 1862, Watie replaced Ross as principal chief.

In spite of early successes, by the winter of 1862-63 the Confederate hold on the Cherokee Nation was slipping. Nonetheless, Watie's Regiment continued to harass Federal forces. In June and September 1864, scored his greatest military feats in the capture of the Union steamboat J.R. Williams and the Second Battle of Cabin Creek. In May 1864 Watie was promoted to brigadier general, and in February 1865 he was placed in command of the Indian Division of Indian Territory. However, by then the war was lost. Watie surrendered on June 23, 1865. He was the last Confederate general to do so. Afterward, he served as a member of the pro-Southern Cherokee delegation to the Fort Smith Council in September 1865.

After the Civil War Watie remained in exile in the Choctaw Nation until 1867. He then returned to Honey Creek to rebuild his home. He died there on September 9, 1871. He was buried in the old Ridge Cemetery, later called Polson's Cemetery, in Delaware County, Oklahoma.

Stand Watie had four wives Eleanor Looney, Elizabeth Fields, Isabella Hicks, and Sarah Caroline Bell. Elizabeth Fields's and Watie's child died during childbirth in 1836. He married Sarah Caroline Bell in 1842. They had three sons and two daughters. All died without issue.

SEE ALSO: CHEROKEE, CIVIL WAR ERA, INDIAN REMOVAL.

OTHER RESOURCES: "Some Letters of General Stand Watie." Chronicles of Oklahoma 1 (January 1921). "Additional Letters of General Stand Watie." Chronicles of Oklahoma 1 (October 1921). For more articles about Stand Watie, search the Chronicles of Oklahoma at the Oklahoma State University Library Electronic Publishing Center.

BIBLIOGRAPHY: Edward E. Dale and Gaston Litton, ed., Cherokee Cavaliers: Forty Years of Cherokee History as Told in the Correspondence of the Ridge-Watie-Boudinot Family (Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1939). Kenny A. Franks, Stand Watie and the Agony of the Cherokee Nation (Memphis, Tenn.: Memphis State University Press, 1979). Morris L. Wardell, A Political History of the Cherokee Nation, 1838-1907 (Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1938). Grace Steele Woodward, The Cherokees (Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1963).

Kenny A. Franks

© Oklahoma Historical Society

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#61 Jan-31-2010 10:20:pm

Chevy
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Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

This is my Aunt's family, as her ancestors, the Williams,  married Nancy and Mary Isaacks, said to be related to Richard Fields.

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~chero … cghee.html

There was lots of feuding and killing between the fullbloods, and thinbloods, between those who sided with the Union, and those who upheld slavery.
It's still going on today. Look at a person we know who has a forum, and the Chief of the CNO, bls, and what's going on today in the Cherokee Nation. They just aren't, as far as I know, killing each other now. Take a look at the person we know, what he has to say about Cherokee wearing sheets. Maybe they aren't literally wearing sheets, but he knows what he's talking about.

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#62 Jan-31-2010 10:53:pm

bls926
Administrator
From: Texas
Registered: Oct-21-2006
Posts: 12082

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

sschkaak wrote:

bls926 wrote:

As for full-bloods never accepting thin-bloods . . . That just isn't true. It has never been that way. Chief John Ross was only 1/8 Cherokee. I don't think anyone ever called him a thin-blood or had a problem with him being their chief. With most Cherokee, it's as much about culture as it is blood.

Do you really believe this?  Go back over the old posts at Indianz.com and see all the abuse Steve Russell has taken for being 1/8 Cherokee, from those with much higher Cherokee BQ's.

That's not real life. The majority of those heaping abuse on Steve aren't Cherokee; they're anonymous posters, without names or faces, pounding their internet chests. Even John Cornsilk, while not agreeing with everything Steve says and joking about educating him, doesn't consider him any less Cherokee for being 1/8 BQ.

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#63 Jan-31-2010 11:00:pm

Chevy
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Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

http://www.keetoowahcherokee.org/docume … yessay.pdf

Well, real life, there's still a struggle between the keetoowah, and CNO, and one is fullbloods and the other is considered "thinbloods".

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#64 Jan-31-2010 11:19:pm

Chevy
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Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

http://www.hcn.org/issues/41.1/blood-qu … =0&-C=


 
Info Blood QuantumA complicated system that determines tribal membership threatens the future of American Indians

Feature story - From the January 19, 2009 issue of High Country News

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#65 Jan-31-2010 11:20:pm

bls926
Administrator
From: Texas
Registered: Oct-21-2006
Posts: 12082

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

Every Keetoowah isn't full-blood and every member of CNO isn't a thin-blood. You can't make generalizations. As for John Cornsilk and Chad Smith, there's a lot more going on there than BQ. If you really want to get John going, ask him about the Cherokee tribes in Alabama, Missouri, Tennessee, Kentucky, or Georgia. You think he gets upset with Chad Smith and Mike Graham?

Not sure why you posted the info on John Ross, John Rollin Ridge, and Stand Watie. None of these were considered thin-blood and definitely wouldn't fit David Cornsilk's definition of a wannabee. While some fell out of favor for a while, all are respected Cherokee.

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#66 Feb-01-2010 12:03:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4272
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Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

Does John Cornsilk now believe the CNO is a legitimate tribe?  He sure didn't think so before he was kicked out of the UKB.

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#67 Feb-01-2010 12:20:am

bls926
Administrator
From: Texas
Registered: Oct-21-2006
Posts: 12082

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

sschkaak wrote:

Does John Cornsilk now believe the CNO is a legitimate tribe?  He sure didn't think so before he was kicked out of the UKB.

He still calls them CNOT. I'm not sure if it's actually the CNO or the current administration he has a problem with. With John, it's hard to tell. Although, I don't think he was too happy with Ross Swimmer either.

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#68 Feb-01-2010 12:26:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4272
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Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

LOL!  (at CNOT).  Think I'll bow out of this one, now.  My views on recognition are well-known to everyone here.  It seems pretty simple, to me.  Stop acknowledging non-Indians as Indians and the Wannabe problem (if it is a problem) would go away almost overnight.  As long as a Wannabe sees that it's okay to call yourself an Indian, when you're 7/8 or 15/16 or 255/256 non-Indian, simply because you have an Indian ancestor on the right roll, it will NEVER end.

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#69 Feb-01-2010 05:18:am

Gummy Bear
Member
Registered: Jan-28-2010
Posts: 61

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

sschkaak wrote:

LOL!  (at CNOT).  Think I'll bow out of this one, now.  My views on recognition are well-known to everyone here.  It seems pretty simple, to me.  Stop acknowledging non-Indians as Indians and the Wannabe problem (if it is a problem) would go away almost overnight.  As long as a Wannabe sees that it's okay to call yourself an Indian, when you're 7/8 or 15/16 or 255/256 non-Indian, simply because you have an Indian ancestor on the right roll, it will NEVER end.

If it is a problem said it all,,,
I firmly think it is a fabricated problem used for political purposes.
Then after the over zealots are sold the rest will follow.

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#70 Feb-01-2010 06:40:am

Chevy
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Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

I posted what I posted, bls, because I believe that there was a feud bet. the early settlers, and the ones who weren't, and then when the Civil War came there was a feud bet. the ones who had slaves, and the ones who did not. The fullbloods did not have slaves, and the intermarried with whites did, as I understand it, and that is when the Keetoowah Society was formed. They assassinated each other, and contrary to what some persons think, I think old feuds do not die. Also the Keetoowah think they are the legit gov. NOT the CNO.
So, those are my thoughts, and that there are persons in the CNO, whose ancestors owned slaves, and they are racist, and unrepentant. That's what I think. Whether they're members of the KKK, I don't know,  but old John C. certainly calls them KKK sheet-wearers.
Also, ppl who post on forums are real ppl. Some, how many, and who, may be fakes, but not all are, and there are a lot of ppl who do not like low b.q. persons, or "hang around the forts", or "persons who have more white blood who run tribal governments, and are racist against fullbloods". Not like I'm an authority, or speak from experience, just what I've been told. smile

I agree with sschkaak. John C. certainly did not think CNO was a legit "tribe". What he thinks now, I don't know. Do you know, bls?

Just like the Cherokee and Delaware have been feuding since the Delaware came to I.T. You think they kissed and made up? I don't think so. big_smile

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#71 Feb-01-2010 06:44:am

Chevy
Member
Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

"Stop acknowledging non-Indians as Indians and the Wannabe problem (if it is a problem) would go away almost overnight.  As long as a Wannabe sees that it's okay to call yourself an Indian, when you're 7/8 or 15/16 or 255/256 non-Indian, simply because you have an Indian ancestor on the right roll, it will NEVER end."


Well, sschkaak, then it is never going to end. roll

"I firmly think it is a fabricated problem used for political purposes."

Well, I think that's true in some cases, Gummy Bear.

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#72 Feb-01-2010 06:49:am

Chevy
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Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

The only way it involves me is, I have friends whose kids are enrolled, and not with the Cherokee smile, and persons I know, and/or have met on forums, that I hate to see the U.S. Gov. not abide by treaties, or not fund  what they should, by treaty, fund. but this Government is broke, in debt, and to me, the banks, and wallstreet are running the country, so as of a year after the election, I don't believe anybody anymore, and just look for those who have money to take care of themselves, and say to hell with the rest of the people in the country, and that includes Indians. sad

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#73 Feb-01-2010 07:06:am

Chevy
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Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

http://www.electricscotland.com/hiStory … uantum.htm

Answers to Questionnaire on blood quantum - see link for answers

Hello, one and all,

Hearing no objections, here are the replies I received.  I removed the names of individuals mentioned - names have been changed to protect the innocent.  Took poetic license and deleted one phrase from one reply and made spelling changes to two.  Other than that, everything is exactly the way people replied.  Left in the references to tribes that are mentioned.  Still have original emails to prove those were my only changes.  Going to forward the replies to some of my Pawnee people who were interested in seeing the replies.

There's a wide range and depth of responses and feelings.  Very powerful.  This is something touching our lives now, and some tribes have gone ahead to lead the way.  This issue will be more important for our future generations and for the existence of our tribes/nations.

I believe that knowledge is power and the more we know, the more we can make informed decisions.  Replies are from a wide range of tribes, gender, location, professions and age groups.  I am so surprised that there are no resources or information available that I could find about this issue.

Again, to each of you, thanks for taking time out to respond.  You have given me much to think and pray about before the vote takes place.

Irene

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#74 Feb-01-2010 10:50:am

Chevy
Member
Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

Well, the Welsh did reply:

Hello again Martha.



I have been making some enquiries as promised.



I do not think there is an official line on this. The dictionary definition of ‘Welsh’ is ‘pertaining to Wales, its people and language’ and some dictionaries extend this to include descendants elsewhere.



I have been talking to my Welsh-speaking colleagues and they do not feel it would offend anyone to say you are Welsh, even though you were not born in Wales yourself. They take it as compliment that you are proud of your Welsh roots.



Do you know where your ancestor emigrated from?



Regards



***** ******

Last edited by Chevy (Feb-01-2010 10:51:am)

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#75 Feb-01-2010 07:31:pm

bls926
Administrator
From: Texas
Registered: Oct-21-2006
Posts: 12082

Re: David Cornsilk: Definition of Wannabee

So the Welsh don't mind if someone of Welsh descent calls himself 'Welsh'. I wonder if that would change if that Welsh descendant started to speak for the Welsh people, tried to obtain benefits to which only citizens of Wales were entitled, or set up a New Wales here in North America. They might not be so approving then. They might not "take it as a compliment that you were proud of your Welsh roots". Something to think about.

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