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#1 Feb-17-2009 11:08:am

lenape
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Registered: Feb-11-2008
Posts: 1779

Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

http://www.kalmarnyckel.org/olstore/lec … elease.pdf

Abigail Seldin
Flying With the Fourth Crow:
A Reflection on Curating Fulfilling a Prophecy
The Past and Present of the Lenape in
Pennsylvania and Delaware

Chase Center
Dravo Auditorium
March 19, 2009
6:00-8:00pm
Wilmington, Delaware, February 2, 2009 – The Kalmar Nyckel Foundation, in keeping with its new educational mission to enrich the lives of students of all ages, announced the initiation of a new lecture series today. The Foundation’s Director of Education Samuel Heed will present Abigail Seldin, the University of Pennsylvania’s celebrated young anthropologist and Rhodes Scholar, at the Chase Center’s Dravo Auditorium March 19, 2009. “We are delighted to be bringing Abigail Seldin to the
greater Wilmington community,” Mr. Heed said, “helping to sponsor her extraordinary work with the Lenape Nation, promoting the astonishing and poignant Lenape survival-story which she has brought to light after two centuries of cultural secrecy and neglect.”
“This is a story for our time, for all time, and for all Americans,” Heed said while describing the significance of Abigail Seldin’s work. “We at the Kalmar Nyckel Foundation, dedicated ‘to preserving and promoting the cultural and maritime heritage of Delaware for the education and enrichment of all,’ feel a special obligation to raise awareness about the Lenape’s on-going history within our midst, to recognize and further a reconciliation that Abigail’s work has done so much to foster.”
Abigail Seldin became the first Penn anthropology undergraduate to curate an exhibit at the University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology – “Fulfilling a Prophecy: The Past and Present of the Lenape in Pennsylvania” (which runs from Sept. 13, 2008 to Sept. 13, 2009). Working with co-curators Chief Bob Redhawk Ruth, currently serving his second term as Chief of the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania, and Shelley DePaul, Language Director of the Lenape Nation, Abigail Seldin has overturned the conventional histories of our region. Most accounts present the Lenape people as being driven completely from Pennsylvania and Delaware by the early 19th century, with any local survivors expiring shortly thereafter or becoming fully assimilated into the prevailing Euro-American culture. In working on an undergraduate project entitled “Native Voice,” which originally planned to focus on the Lenape people’s trek from Pennsylvania to their current locations in the Midwest and Canada, Abigail discovered otherwise. Many Lenape, in turns out, often children of Lenape-European marriages, stayed here in secret. Hiding their tribal heritage for more than two hundred years, they consciously avoided discovery by both the government and their neighbors.
How it was that Abigail Seldin, college undergrad, gained the trust of so many Lenape descendants and eventually the Tribal Council is a worthy and interesting story all its own – one that she will be happy to relate to her audience on March 19th at the Chase Center Auditorium. Over time Abigail was able to draw out extraordinary oral histories, family heirlooms, photographs, ethnographic records, and archaeological objects. This led Abigail to join co-curators Chief Bob Redhawk Ruth and Shelley DePaul in a fully collaborative exhibition, “Fulfilling a Prophecy,” organized by the Penn Museum and the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania. The curatorial team “deliberately organized the exhibition in a way that acknowledges and respects both Western and Native American approaches to learning and storytelling.” They consciously framed the exhibition’s timeline by using an ancient Lenape story, “The Prophecy of the Fourth Crow.” Chief Redhawk Ruth relates the current interpretation of the Prophecy on the Exhibition’s website (see, www.museum.upenn.edu):
“We now know that the First Crow was the Lenape before the coming of the Europeans. The Second Crow symbolized the death and destruction of our culture. The Third Crow was our people going underground and hiding. The Fourth Crow was the Lenape
becoming caretakers again and working with everybody to restore this land.”
Abigail Seldin says her “Fulfilling a Prophecy” is a story about “the endurance of a culture, and the faith of a people waiting for a better time, for the Time of the Fourth Crow. That time is now.”
Don’t miss it.
􀂙
A Reception in honor of Abigail Seldin will be held at the Chase Center’s Dravo Auditorium from 6:00 to 7:00 pm.
􀂙
The Lecture, with time for questions, will be from 7:00 to 8:00 pm.
􀂙
Ticket price $8.00 for members, $10.00 for non-members
􀂙
Student rate with Student ID: $5.00 Doors open to students at 7:00PM
The Kalmar Nyckel Foundation preserves and teaches Delaware’s unique maritime history and multicultural legacy as it relates to the region’s economic, industrial, ecological, and cultural development. The recreation of the Kalmar Nyckel, a 10-year project undertaken by local volunteers, was directed by Master Builder Allen Rawl and launched in May 1997. The recreation was made possible in large part by the vision and generosity of the Delaware General Assembly, then Governor (now Senator) Thomas R. Carper, Tatiana Copeland, and Wilmington’s Riverfront Development Corporation.
FOR MORE INFORMATION, PLEASE CONTACT:
Samuel W. Heed, Esq.
Senior Historian & Director of Education
The Kalmar Nyckel Foundation
1124 East Seventh Street
Wilmington, DE 19801
(302) 429-7447
sheed@kalmarnyckel.org

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#2 Feb-17-2009 12:08:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4344
Website

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

Un-f'@#$-believable!!!   neutral

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#3 Feb-17-2009 03:29:pm

Tokipahkinao
Member
Registered: Jul-22-2008
Posts: 212

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

HE! Gang,

                        I have been connected with the New Sweden Centre, Wilmington, Del for quite a few years as their Lenape consultant.. They in turn are now connected with the Kalmar Nykal Foundation - the KNF has a  full-size repro. of the ship that brought Swedes to the area in 1638. And the 2 groups have  a museum.


                         Everyone knows my connection  as their consultant on Lenape.
Even tho I live one hour away in NJ, I go to the meetings, have dressed a manaquin
in prehistoric  Lenape regalia, taught the museum guides about the Lenape, etc., etc.,
                         So - when I got a short E-Mail about the KN Foundation booking  AS to speak - no one had asked my opinion - I wrote some E-mails that could have made the computers catch on fire ! ! !  As far as I know, they didn't cancel the talk.
I thought seriously above tending my resignation, but I've been working with  the NSC and KNF for about ten years . I was also on the NSC board for years.

                            But If I quit , God knows who they might get as their  Lenape
consultant!!! And what kind of B.S. might be told to them.?

                            Well, that's my "rant" for the day.

                                       Love to all of YOU,

                                                Tokipahkinao

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#4 Feb-17-2009 04:00:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4344
Website

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

What's the point of having a consultant if they're not going to consult her or listen to what she says?   neutral

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#5 Feb-17-2009 04:45:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11096

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

Oh geez! This just keeps getting worse.

Hopefully they'll finally listen to you MaryEllen. Don't quit, they'd end up putting one of these yahoos in. neutral

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#6 Feb-17-2009 08:20:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

sschkaak wrote:

Un-f'@#$-believable!!!   neutral

What you said!!!neutral

  I really don't have to words, and when I do everyone in my tribe says "ignore them and they will finally be found out". ROAD APPLES!! MaryEllen, I hope you can knock some sense in them!


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
---------------------------------------------------
      Warning:  Some Profanity
This might cause you to experience reason

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#7 Feb-18-2009 01:08:am

bls926
Administrator
From: Texas
Registered: Oct-21-2006
Posts: 12082

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

sschkaak wrote:

Un-f'@#$-believable!!!   neutral

My thoughts exactly! WTF is going on up there?


Having some fun with that article:

Working with co-curators Chief Bob Redhawk Ruth, currently serving his second term as Chief of the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania, and Shelley DePaul, Language Director of the Lenape Nation, Abigail Seldin has overturned the conventional histories of our region.

i.e. "true history"


Many Lenape, in turns out, often children of Lenape-European marriages, stayed here in secret.

The 1/2 Lenape-1/2 European children grew up to marry Europeans. The 1/4 Lenape-3/4 European children of that marriage grew up to marry Europeans. The 1/8 Lenape-7/8 European children of that marriage grew up to marry Europeans. The 1/16 Lenape-15/16 European children of that marriage grew up to marry Europeans. And so on and so on . . . And all the while living as whites. Totally assimilated by now and almost totally white, both racially and culturally.


How it was that Abigail Seldin, college undergrad, gained the trust of so many Lenape descendants and eventually the Tribal Council is a worthy and interesting story all its own – one that she will be happy to relate to her audience on March 19th at the Chase Center Auditorium. Over time Abigail was able to draw out extraordinary oral histories, family heirlooms, photographs, ethnographic records, and archaeological objects.

Gained the trust of so many Lenape descendants? It's free publicity for Ruth, DePaul, and gang. Damn. They can't buy this much good press. Extraordinary oral histories? Is that another term for fiction? Family heirlooms? You mean like the Meesing mask carved with a power saw?


Abigail Seldin says her “Fulfilling a Prophecy” is a story about “the endurance of a culture, and the faith of a people waiting for a better time, for the Time of the Fourth Crow. That time is now.”

I just can't believe so many people, supposedly educated people, are believing this crap.


Guess it really isn't much fun. sad

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#8 Feb-18-2009 09:16:am

lenape
Member
Registered: Feb-11-2008
Posts: 1779

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

Well, just playing "Devil's advocate" here but they "say that thay have Lenape blood", guess that makes it o k!roll

Last edited by lenape (Feb-18-2009 09:16:am)

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#9 Feb-18-2009 09:24:am

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4344
Website

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

lenape wrote:

Well, just playing "Devil's advocate" here but they "say that thay have Lenape blood", guess that makes it o k!roll

Having Lenape ancestry doesn't make anything one does okay.  It just makes one a Lenape or Lenape descendant.

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#10 Feb-18-2009 10:37:am

Pepaxkang
Member
Registered: Nov-25-2008
Posts: 65

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

I come on this forum every few days to see what's up, and it's been just stressing me out more every time, lol.

This is UNBELIEVABLE. How is this crap happening? These people need to be sent back in time to live with their "Lenape ancestors", maybe in a good time like the 1750s or 1790s, preferably to the Ohio towns right after Braddock's Defeat.......

Justin

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#11 Feb-18-2009 02:00:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11096

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

bls926 wrote:

The 1/2 Lenape-1/2 European children grew up to marry Europeans. The 1/4 Lenape-3/4 European children of that marriage grew up to marry Europeans. The 1/8 Lenape-7/8 European children of that marriage grew up to marry Europeans. The 1/16 Lenape-15/16 European children of that marriage grew up to marry Europeans. And so on and so on . . . And all the while living as whites. Totally assimilated by now and almost totally white, both racially and culturally.

hmm

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#12 Feb-18-2009 02:02:pm

lenape
Member
Registered: Feb-11-2008
Posts: 1779

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

"Totally assimilated by now and almost totally white, both racially and culturally."

That is an understatement!

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#13 Feb-18-2009 02:19:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11096

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

lenape wrote:

"Totally assimilated by now and almost totally white, both racially and culturally."

That is an understatement!

Are you meaning just the LNP or all people in Pa with Lenape blood. I am confused. hmm

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#14 Feb-18-2009 02:22:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4344
Website

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

tree hugger wrote:

lenape wrote:

"Totally assimilated by now and almost totally white, both racially and culturally."

That is an understatement!

Are you meaning just the LNP or all people in Pa with Lenape blood. I am confused. hmm

Or, does that also include all those enrolled in federally-recognized tribes, with similar Indian BQ's, and who neither know nor have any interest in their tribal cultures?

Last edited by sschkaak (Feb-18-2009 02:23:pm)

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#15 Feb-18-2009 02:23:pm

lenape
Member
Registered: Feb-11-2008
Posts: 1779

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

tree hugger wrote:

lenape wrote:

"Totally assimilated by now and almost totally white, both racially and culturally."

That is an understatement!

Are you meaning just the LNP or all people in Pa with Lenape blood. I am confused. hmm

LNP of course!!

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#16 Feb-18-2009 02:46:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11096

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

Okay, just confused. Sorry for the hijack- back to topic.

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#17 Feb-18-2009 06:11:pm

lenape
Member
Registered: Feb-11-2008
Posts: 1779

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

Here is the response I received today from The Kalmar Nyckel Foundation:

"I thank you for your interest.  We have some appreciation of the complexities and sensitivities of the history involved, and we welcome an open and honest dialogue with the past.  I’m expecting Ms. Seldin’s “reflections” to touch on the issues you’ve raised."

hmm  The issues that I raised was the fact that the whole stinking thing is made up, from the yard sale "artifacts" to the long lost and hidden tribe of misfits, "an open and honest dialogue with the past." (scratches head...) were does honest play into any of this mess?!

Last edited by lenape (Feb-18-2009 06:14:pm)

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#18 Feb-18-2009 06:37:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11096

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

lenape wrote:

Here is the response I received today from The Kalmar Nyckel Foundation:

"I thank you for your interest.  We have some appreciation of the complexities and sensitivities of the history involved, and we welcome an open and honest dialogue with the past.  I’m expecting Ms. Seldin’s “reflections” to touch on the issues you’ve raised."

hmm  The issues that I raised was the fact that the whole stinking thing is made up, from the yard sale "artifacts" to the long lost and hidden tribe of misfits, "an open and honest dialogue with the past." (scratches head...) were does honest play into any of this mess?!

What is this? They're expecting Ms. Seldin's reflections to touch on the issues?  That would be like her admitting she doesn't have a clue what she's doing or she's (along with the rest) making it up as they go along. Doesn't anyone have common sense, at least when you look at their so called artifacts?

roll roll

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#19 Feb-18-2009 06:59:pm

lenape
Member
Registered: Feb-11-2008
Posts: 1779

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

tree hugger wrote:

lenape wrote:

Here is the response I received today from The Kalmar Nyckel Foundation:

"I thank you for your interest.  We have some appreciation of the complexities and sensitivities of the history involved, and we welcome an open and honest dialogue with the past.  I’m expecting Ms. Seldin’s “reflections” to touch on the issues you’ve raised."

hmm  The issues that I raised was the fact that the whole stinking thing is made up, from the yard sale "artifacts" to the long lost and hidden tribe of misfits, "an open and honest dialogue with the past." (scratches head...) were does honest play into any of this mess?!

What is this? They're expecting Ms. Seldin's reflections to touch on the issues?  That would be like her admitting she doesn't have a clue what she's doing or she's (along with the rest) making it up as they go along. Doesn't anyone have common sense, at least when you look at their so called artifacts?

roll roll

It is the same thing as with every other place, "they told us there would be people picking on them, this is why they went into hiding.... do you know how hard it was to get them to come out now, some are still scared..." bla, bla, bla!  I can not tell you how many email responses and phone conversations that has been said in!  At least 10, I am so sick of hearing that bull!

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#20 Feb-18-2009 07:01:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11096

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

"they told us there would be people picking on them, this is why they went into hiding.... do you know how hard it was to get them to come out now, some are still scared..."

Bwhaha that made me laugh. lol

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#21 Feb-18-2009 07:12:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

tree hugger wrote:

"they told us there would be people picking on them, this is why they went into hiding.... do you know how hard it was to get them to come out now, some are still scared..."

Bwhaha that made me laugh. lol

neutral  I didn't

Scared of what??? Being discovered as frauds??? This is mental. hmm  Especially with all of Bob Ruth's documented contradicting stories. neutral


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
---------------------------------------------------
      Warning:  Some Profanity
This might cause you to experience reason

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#22 Feb-18-2009 07:14:pm

lenape
Member
Registered: Feb-11-2008
Posts: 1779

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

NanticokePiney wrote:

Scared of what??? Being discovered as frauds??? This is mental. hmm  Especially with all of Bob Ruth's documented contradicting stories. neutral

Check your email and you will see who it is from, that makes it even worse!!!

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#23 Feb-18-2009 07:17:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11096

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

Piney it made me laugh because you know how much they planned this, and who do they think were going to pick on them? A handful that have been trying to tell the truth for years.

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#24 Feb-19-2009 11:25:am

Tokipahkinao
Member
Registered: Jul-22-2008
Posts: 212

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

HE! Lenape:

                      Who signed that statement from the KN Foundation.? I know that group pretty well. I'm curious to know who's representing them.

                      In the E-mails between me and board members of the New Sweden Centre, and the KNFoundation, it says that during the regular board meeting I said  I  "found the group questionable"!!! What I said was a lot stronger than that -  but I don't think it got into the minutes of that meeting.

                                              MEBF

PS: I'm so da** sick of people "tip-toeing' around the truth!

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#25 Feb-19-2009 08:31:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Abigail Seldin, Flying with the Fourth Crow.... Reception and Lecture

lenape wrote:

NanticokePiney wrote:

Scared of what??? Being discovered as frauds??? This is mental. hmm  Especially with all of Bob Ruth's documented contradicting stories. neutral

Check your email and you will see who it is from, that makes it even worse!!!

I saw.....yeah...there's a few more involved of my ilk. neutral TH and I were discussing them on the phone. hmm


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
---------------------------------------------------
      Warning:  Some Profanity
This might cause you to experience reason

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