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#1 Jul-16-2008 07:42:am

tree hugger
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American Indians return to tradition

Full Story:  http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/jul … tion47603/



COLUMBIA Americans Indians came to the Statehouse dressed in buckskin and beaded regalia Tuesday when Gov. Mark Sanford ceremoniously restored one very sacred right.

"It's a big step forward we've been underprivileged for too long," Santee Indian Chief Roosevelt Scott said of the authority recently returned to tribe chiefs and spiritual leaders to perform marriage ceremonies.

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#2 Jul-16-2008 07:51:pm

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: American Indians return to tradition

mark wrote:

Ok, since I know nothing of these above listed people, are they legit?  Or do they belong in one of the sections below?

The Santee are "isolate group" that escaped the "Mulatto / High Yellow" classification , and they are legit. The Scotts are one of their largest and most influential families. They are related to the Scotts among the Lumbees.


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#3 Jul-16-2008 08:01:pm

tree hugger
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Re: American Indians return to tradition

Are you sure about all the groups this article is talking about? I haven't had the time or energy to check it out.

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#4 Jul-16-2008 08:52:pm

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: American Indians return to tradition

tree hugger wrote:

Are you sure about all the groups this article is talking about? I haven't had the time or energy to check it out.

Not all, but I know the Santee. I'll have to look. South Carolina has many legit "isolate groups"  and some have split but there might be some "wing dings".


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#5 Jul-16-2008 09:12:pm

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: American Indians return to tradition

I know Louie Chavis. The Beaver Creek Indians are Saponi/Pee Dee. I know the Waccamaw. They're legit.
The Lower Eastern Cherokees I'm not sure about as with the Wassamasaw.


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#6 Jul-16-2008 09:24:pm

sschkaak
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Re: American Indians return to tradition

You know:  Just because a group is classified as "isolate," that doesn't mean they're Indians, necessarily.  A huge DNA survey of the Melungeons, for instance, showed that they actually have a very small Indian component in their background--contrary to what many people thought.  I'm just sayin'...   neutral

Last edited by sschkaak (Jul-16-2008 09:33:pm)

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#7 Jul-17-2008 06:47:pm

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: American Indians return to tradition

sschkaak wrote:

You know:  Just because a group is classified as "isolate," that doesn't mean they're Indians, necessarily.  A huge DNA survey of the Melungeons, for instance, showed that they actually have a very small Indian component in their background--contrary to what many people thought.  I'm just sayin'...   neutral

With inbreeding (I'm not joking) DNA tests are rather funny.


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#8 Jul-17-2008 06:50:pm

tree hugger
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Re: American Indians return to tradition

With inbreeding (I'm not joking) DNA tests are rather funny.

That made me laugh and it's true.

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#9 Jul-17-2008 07:08:pm

sschkaak
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Re: American Indians return to tradition

The only real effect inbreeding has on *these kinds* of DNA tests is that one Indian ancestor may show up more than once in the family tree--thus, INCREASING the Indian component of one's genetic make-up.  Indian ancestral haplogroups and markers don't somehow show up as European or African or East Asian.

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#10 Jul-17-2008 07:11:pm

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: American Indians return to tradition

sschkaak wrote:

The only real effect inbreeding has on *these kinds* of DNA tests is that one Indian ancestor may show up more than once in the family tree--thus, INCREASING the Indian component of one's genetic make-up.  Indian ancestral haplogroups and markers don't somehow show up as European or African or East Asian.

I saw 2 brothers' tests.  One got all the Indian genes the other got none.  The mother and father were both "full blooded"  High yellas.


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#11 Jul-17-2008 07:25:pm

sschkaak
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Re: American Indians return to tradition

You have to know what you're looking at.   DNA test result percentages are not the same thing as BQ.  There are two random allocations of "racial" markers which take place in the process of fertilization.  If one brother is 1/4 BQ--then, so is the other one.  However, most markers occur with about the same frequency in ALL races.  Those markers which are more specific to a particular race may show up in greater numbers in one brother than another.  And the difference may be quite distinct.  Another problem with the present technology is that there is a range of error of about 10% + or -.  When a small percentage comes up, for an individual, one can only calculate the likelihood that he has a 95% probability of having *SOME* percentage of Indian ancestry above 0%.  An exact number cannot be determined.  HOWEVER, if one were to test, say, 100 people, the *average* Indian percentage would be very, very close to the exact average of the group.  (All this, of course, refers only to the biogeographical form of testing.)

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#12 Jul-20-2008 08:09:pm

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: American Indians return to tradition

NanticokePiney wrote:

I know Louie Chavis. The Beaver Creek Indians are Saponi/Pee Dee. I know the Waccamaw. They're legit.
The Lower Eastern Cherokees I'm not sure about as with the Wassamasaw.

The Wassamasaw are legit. They have some real solid documentation and are open about it.


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#13 May-21-2018 11:00:am

sschkaak
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Re: American Indians return to tradition

I guess I'll put this here.

https://www.postandcourier.com/news/sou … 47d5d.html

South Carolina's Native American tribes aim to protect their legacy with new legislation

By Chloe Johnson cjohnson@postandcourier.com 

(picture at the site)

Who is considered an American Indian in South Carolina?

The state of South Carolina has just put limits on who falls into the category of recognized Native American. And Chief Harold "Buster" Hatcher, of the Waccamaw Indian People, thinks that's a good thing.

Hatcher said the change will protect resources for existing tribes from impostors and in the finances that go with tribal operations.

“We don’t have enough of that money in that little pocket," he said.

His comments come after Gov. Henry McMaster signed legislation that stops the state from recognizing additional Native American "groups." That category didn't require every member to prove they have Indian blood, but groups and their members can still apply for federal dollars, register their businesses as minority-owned and weigh in on Native American issues. An influx of new groups would dilute those resources.

"We have a lot of pseudo-Indian groups that do come into this state or individuals that claim native heritage that might not be," said Marcy Hayden, Native American affairs coordinator for the S.C. Commission for Minority Affairs.

However, she added that none have gone through the process of applying to be a recognized group.

Tracing history

More than 13,000 Native Americans live in South Carolina, according to a 2016 state study. There is only one one federally recognized tribe in South Carolina, the Catawba, who have a reservation near Rock Hill.

Separately, the state recognizes eight tribes and three groups.

That designation can be an important validation for people whose histories are ignored or erased. Hayden said school textbooks sometimes skip much of Native American history in the Southeast, leaving students with the erroneous impression that no tribes are left.

The first tribe recognized by South Carolina was the Waccamaw, in 2005. Their earliest mention in the historical record is a map from 1725 indicating their presence in present-day Horry County.

That land was given out to settlers in grants after the Revolutionary War, Hatcher said. In 1813, a "free person of color" named John Dimery bought back a portion in the Dog Bluff area, near Aynor.

Dimery is connected to the earlier group of Waccamaw in part by logic: Hatcher argues that no other native group would have sought to regain that land. Record-keeping largely erased the designation of "Indian" in favor of terms like "Mulatto" or Dimery's description, but the historical record shows that surrounding whites considered the people there to be Native American. The settlement's children were even sent to a separate Indian school during the early days of segregation.

For decades after, Waccamaw people lived in the Dimery community, Hatcher said. Eventually the Indian school closed and the Waccamaw were split between the schools that remained. Hatcher grew up straddling two worlds, living in a black neighborhood and attending Myrtle Beach Elementary, which was then a white school. His relatives went to both black and white schools.

"We were wrong at home. We were wrong at school, too," he said.

Today, the Waccamaw have about 425 members and hold an annual powwow on land that they own near Dog Bluff.

Another nearby tribe, the Chicora, have historical roots in Georgetown, Horry and Williamsburg counties. There's evidence that the Chicora made contact with Spanish explorers in the 1500s.

Today, there are about 50 members. Chief Vernon Thompkins said the tribe is applying for state recognition and working to reach out to other people that might have Chicora heritage. At one point, the tribe had as many as 800 members, he said.

"We’re being blessed at this time, we’re moving in a positive mode and we’re rebuilding and reestablishing our rights," Thompkins said.
Tommy Howard, the secretary-treasurer of the Chicora, said he's had conversations with fellow history buffs who assert that the Chicora are now extinct. Getting state recognition will help to correct that misconception.

Howard himself does not have any Native American ancestry. He said he befriended a member of the Chicora in 2014 and slowly started attending meetings and helping out as the tribe works for an official designation. He was inducted as a "adopted member" in 2016.

"I feel like if I can help them achieve tribal recognition and grow membership and participation, it's a good thing for people that deserve to have that kind of recognition," Howard said.

Recognition

South Carolina recognizes Native American entities because of the complex history between colonizers and indigenous peoples.

In other states, treaties often form the basis of agreements granting federal recognition to native groups. They usually involved an official census of a tribal members, which makes it easier to trace the lineage of modern-day members.

But tribes in South Carolina didn't always strike a treaty with the nascent U.S. government, especially if a tribe was considered friendly, according to Jonathan Leader, the state's archaeologist.

South Carolina recognizes tribes that can prove 100 years of continuous community with at least 100 members. The lower bar for groups initially allowed a native organization some wiggle room if they were still collecting documentation of their history.

Hatcher said he had been pushing for the bill to cut off additional groups for years. The Native American Advisory Committee, which advises the Commission for Minority Affairs, unanimously voted to support it, he said.

Tribe officials and state employees couldn't point to a specific example of a group with few native members trying to game the state's system. Still, Hayden said she frequently has to explain that a tribe can't consist just of family members with American Indian blood. It's a governing body, and it has to be tied to history.
At this point, it's likely that the state has made contact with most of the tribes that remain.

"State recognition, it was always meant to be a finite process. It is not meant to go on forever," Hayden said. "There’s only so many indigenous groups of people that live in South Carolina. ... We feel like we have reached those populations."

Tribal membership

Hayden said that if a tribe doesn't get state recognition, "That doesn't preclude them from being who they are and owning their heritage."

But being recognized through official channels is still bound up with a sense of identity for many. The Waccamaw are working to gain federal recognition, but the process has been a difficult one because early members of the tribe didn't keep records of births and deaths.

The additional complication of later records that did not use the word "Indian" make the process even harder, amounting to "documentary genocide," Hatcher said.

For federally recognized tribes, deciding who's a member and who's not is a high-stakes process, especially for those that live on a reservation, have a job there or are in other ways connected to the administration of a tribe.

Disenrollment, which sometimes happens if a review of the historical record shows someone is not actually blood-related to the tribe's ancestors, "can be very emotional and complicated," Hayden said.

In one of the most high-profile cases, the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma stripped citizenship from 2,800 people in 2007 when they changed the nation's bylaws to define citizenship as "by blood," according to NPR. The people affected were known as the Cherokee Freedmen, the descendants of slaves once owned by the Cherokee. They were brought to Oklahoma with the rest of the tribe during the Trail of Tears, a forced relocation from the Southeast under Andrew Jackson.
The controversial decision sparked a lawsuit, and a federal judge decided last August that the Freedmen should be allowed to keep their tribal citizenship.

Last edited by sschkaak (May-21-2018 12:07:pm)

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