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#126 Jan-02-2011 06:52:pm

oldsalty
Moderator
From: Long way from the Northern Hem
Registered: Dec-01-2006
Posts: 901

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

lenape_eela wrote:

so are we gonna be teaching klingon language next if we throw out all the language rules and merge two dilaects? interesting and funny at the same time.

i know some lenape people who sundance, it isnt our way but they have been asked to join that way and walk that walk. i have been both to the cheyenne/ arapaho sundances in el reno oklahoma and also the santee sundance in northern nebraska.  good places to be , but definately not a bighouse in any way. .. this entire thread left me kinda confused , so i read the entire thing.  im still thinking wtf? im lost here..

Anyone would get lost in this as there are so many lies from many of the groups written about in this topic.
I reckon it just comes back to people trying to rip you off lenape_eela:(

Fact is someone writes a book and then becomes part of the education system and taken as gospel by uninformed people and even educators.How many generations before a new culture develops that can claim a continuous tie to the land.

Cant really say and not up to me to say what you do about it. Its looking like its going to need addressing at some point soon though.

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#127 Jan-02-2011 06:55:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4390

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

Tree Hugger wrote:

"I'd like to learn Klingon."

http://www.kli.org/

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#128 Jan-02-2011 07:28:pm

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11117

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

sschkaak wrote:

Tree Hugger wrote:

"I'd like to learn Klingon."

http://www.kli.org/

Sweet thanks, it's probably closer to the Lenape dialect then DePauls is. tongue

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#129 Jan-02-2011 08:50:pm

Suckachsinheet
Member
Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 978

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

lenape_eela wrote:

so are we gonna be teaching klingon language next if we throw out all the language rules and merge two dilaects? interesting and funny at the same time.

Actually, that is a very good analogy, since the Klingon language was manufactured out of whole cloth for a Star Trek movie. I suppose the LNP had a little more to start from, but the end result is apparently somewhat similar (I have to take other more knowledgeable people's word on this).


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#130 Jan-03-2011 05:49:am

oldsalty
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From: Long way from the Northern Hem
Registered: Dec-01-2006
Posts: 901

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

drea wrote:

I am new to this site. I came across it after reading the book that you all are discussing for a class. I would like to know more about what you all think, so here it goes:

Isn't cultural all about change? Indian culture is not the same today as it was 100 years ago. So, isn't it safe to say that everyone "reinvents" their culture just a little bit? I am not trying to stir anything up here. I just think that it is an interesting idea. I also wonder where you can draw a line between a real Indian and a wannabe. Any ideas?

Hi Drea its a while since you posted and wondered what your own views are now!

My view is there is definately a line between a real indian and a wannabe!!A wannabe acts and does things he has no clue about and no right to be doing.
To draw a line I believe you must ask a real indian (as you put it) and to do this would mean going to Oklahoma or Canada I believe although I dont think this is a question that they will be interested in answering. I believe that there are two many other issues that they have continuosly had to address eg water,health,discrimination etc
This is said with no disrespect to Nanticoke,Sandhills,Ramapough,Stockbridge(others I am not familiar with) as you may also find the correct answer there.
All these hobby groups in Pennsylvania would not relate to what being a real indian is and either can I!

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#131 Jan-03-2011 08:00:am

ramapoughnative
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Registered: Sep-10-2007
Posts: 187
Website

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

This is said with no disrespect to Nanticoke,Sandhills,Ramapough,Stockbridge(others I am not familiar with) as you may also find the correct answer there.

No disrespect taken.. smile We have an open dialog with Canadian Munsee and i'm sure the Nanticoke have one with the West as well. Can't speak for anyone else though. smile


Everything I do is for my grandmother for without her, I wouldn't be here today.

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#132 Jan-03-2011 08:08:pm

oldsalty
Moderator
From: Long way from the Northern Hem
Registered: Dec-01-2006
Posts: 901

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

ramapoughnative wrote:

This is said with no disrespect to Nanticoke,Sandhills,Ramapough,Stockbridge(others I am not familiar with) as you may also find the correct answer there.

No disrespect taken.. smile We have an open dialog with Canadian Munsee and i'm sure the Nanticoke have one with the West as well. Can't speak for anyone else though. smile

Well said point ramapoughnative:)

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#133 Jan-04-2011 08:05:pm

lenape_eela
Visitor
Registered: Aug-26-2010
Posts: 134

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

it definately is past due to be corrected. im willing to travel. just takes time and extra money. i can put in LOa at work for at least 30 days. im getting good ideas!

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#134 Jan-05-2011 07:50:am

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11117

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

lenape_eela wrote:

it definately is past due to be corrected. im willing to travel. just takes time and extra money. i can put in LOa at work for at least 30 days. im getting good ideas!

I like the sound of this, lol.

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#135 Jan-05-2011 09:15:am

ramapoughnative
Member
Registered: Sep-10-2007
Posts: 187
Website

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

I like the idea.. It would be great to meet face to face finally! smile


Everything I do is for my grandmother for without her, I wouldn't be here today.

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#136 Sep-28-2012 08:27:am

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11117

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

sschkaak wrote:

This thing is still $104 at Amazon!  You can get it for $83.96 at Barnes & Noble.  That's the cheapest price I can find, right now.  Guess I'll have to wait a few more years to get a copy.  LOL!  (Not paying that price for this thing.)

This thing is still 100 bucks on Amazon! Sorry for bumping but that's nuts. I thought there might be a cheap used one by now. yikes

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#137 Sep-28-2012 03:43:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4390

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

I can't find it anywhere for less than that, either.  Ridiculous!

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#138 Sep-28-2012 04:16:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4390

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

If you have an Amazon "Kindle," you can get it, as an e-book, for $52.99.  I don't have one, and probably wouldn't pay that for a real hardcover book.

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#139 Sep-30-2012 09:40:am

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11117

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

sschkaak wrote:

If you have an Amazon "Kindle," you can get it, as an e-book, for $52.99.  I don't have one, and probably wouldn't pay that for a real hardcover book.

I don't have one either, and wouldn't pay that much for it as an ebook. This is just crazy. I'm beginning to think, it's priced high so that no one will read it. lol

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#140 Sep-12-2013 07:48:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4390

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

A year later, and this book is still about $100, no matter where you look.

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#141 Sep-16-2013 07:32:am

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11117

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

I'd be curious about the number of these that were actually sold. I can not believe this thing is still that high.

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#142 Jul-17-2014 03:45:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4390

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

Well...  I did it.  Against my better judgment, I ordered this book, today.  $66.99 at Amazon.  (There goes my book budget for several months.)  Should arrive within 5 or 6 days.  I'll read it and review it, God willing.

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#143 Jul-17-2014 04:06:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11117

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

Oh wow. Good luck, and I hope your brain doesn't implode. neutral

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#144 Jul-17-2014 07:12:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

I cannot wait to read your review...neutral


    tonguelol


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
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      Warning:  Some Profanity
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#145 Jul-18-2014 12:46:am

Suckachsinheet
Member
Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 978

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

NanticokePiney wrote:

I cannot wait to read your review...neutral

I think that is true for most of us.


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#146 Jul-26-2014 12:42:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4390

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

Got the book, today, and have scanned through it.  I have to read it, thoroughly, but I can already tell you it's going to be a major disappointment.  The authors make no judgments about any of the data they collected.  They're basically just reporters.  It should have been titled, People in Pennsylvania Who Call Themselves Native Americans.  A large portion of the first part of the book is nothing but a rehash of the general history of PA Indians, taken from various secondary sources.  I'm not even going to waste my time reading that.  Okay for folks who don't already know all that, I guess.  But, honestly, I don't see how any of it ties in with what's going on in PA, today.  As I see it, it's just a lot of filler used to expand the size of the report to a decent number of pages.  The scope of the book is way too wide.  It includes people from almost every county in Pennsylvania, and from supposed members of 32 different American Indian tribes--most of whom had very short and very contemporary histories in Pennsylvania.  They nearly never quote their informants by name; always writing things like, "A Cherokee man said," or "A Saponi woman told us," etc.  There is never any distiction drawn between an enrolled full-blood Indian and a white or black person with no more than a family tradition of Indian ancestry.  They're all called just "Native Americans" in this book, so you have no idea what the Indian BQ (if any) of any particular person speaking is.  My review will try to concentrate on what interests us most:  the Lenape claimant groups.  But, don't expect to see much more than we already know about them.  I almost feel like throwing this book in the garbage.  (I won't, though.)   neutral

Last edited by sschkaak (Jul-26-2014 02:36:pm)

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#147 Jul-26-2014 03:23:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4390

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

I think these authors should make their next project to study all the Zulus in South Africa who, for all intents and purposes, look like white Afrikaaners to the rest of us.  Can you imagine an Afrikaaner telling them, "We Zulus are the only people who have to prove we are who we say we are."?  hmm

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#148 Jul-26-2014 05:28:pm

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11117

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

neutral I would like to say I'm surprised. I would like to but I'm not.

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#149 Aug-01-2014 06:34:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11117

Re: "Invisible Indians" of PA

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