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#1 Mar-11-2008 07:44:am

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11139

Powhatan Renape

Did I totally miss something or are they state recognized now? I'm lost.

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#2 Mar-11-2008 09:50:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
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Re: Powhatan Renape

tree hugger wrote:

Did I totally miss something or are they state recognized now? I'm lost.

Yup.  By Resolution of the Legislature--same as the other two.

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#3 Mar-11-2008 09:52:am

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
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Re: Powhatan Renape

I feel stupid now, I was under the impression they didn't. Thanks for setting me straight and yikes.

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#4 Mar-11-2008 02:29:pm

tree hugger
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Re: Powhatan Renape

Why are the Sandhills always left out?

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#5 Mar-11-2008 03:20:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4409

Re: Powhatan Renape

tree hugger wrote:

Why are the Sandhills always left out?

Well... When you find that the New Jersey State Commission appointed to look into these things recommends Evan T. Pritchard's book, NATIVE NEW YORKERS, as an authoritative source of information on the Delaware Indians, it goes a long way toward answering your question!

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#6 Mar-11-2008 03:32:pm

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
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Re: Powhatan Renape

Sure does! Guess it's time to edumacate myself a little bit more on all of this.

JMO but I thinks it's nuts to recognize the Powhatan Renape... and I'm not even smart!

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#7 Mar-11-2008 03:51:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4409

Re: Powhatan Renape

New Jersey has set NO criteria for recognition.  The proposed solution is to *FIRST* recognize the three tribes, *THEN* appoint members of those tribes to a Commission whose duties will include coming up with criteria for recognition!   hmm

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#8 Mar-11-2008 04:01:pm

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11139

Re: Powhatan Renape

sschkaak wrote:

New Jersey has set NO criteria for recognition.  The proposed solution is to *FIRST* recognize the three tribes, *THEN* appoint members of those tribes to a Commission whose duties will include coming up with criteria for recognition!   hmm

Uh you know I had to say something. Okay now what if they don't want to recognize each other? That's crazy. I know there is not alot of respect among them for the Renape.

I'm totally confused now.  yikes

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#9 Mar-11-2008 04:33:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4409

Re: Powhatan Renape

They will be recognized.  Only *NEW* "applicants" (so to speak) will be subject to the criteria thus promulgated!  lol

(edited to correct a typo)

Last edited by sschkaak (Mar-11-2008 04:57:pm)

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#10 Mar-11-2008 04:46:pm

bls926
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From: Texas
Registered: Oct-21-2006
Posts: 12082

Re: Powhatan Renape

I thought the Sandhill were recognized. Hmmm

Who are the Powhatan Renape? I know I should do my own research, but could someone help me out?

Also, why is it fair for the three tribes already recognized not to have undergone scrutiny, passed any actual criteria, but "new" tribes will? Criteria established by the three existing state-recognized tribes? How is that fair?

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#11 Mar-11-2008 05:20:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4409

Re: Powhatan Renape

bls wrote:

"I thought the Sandhill were recognized. Hmmm"

They consider themselves recognized by a blanket Gubernatorial Proclamation and by their various dealings with the State, over the years.  It remains to be seen whether or not the State agrees!

"Who are the Powhatan Renape? I know I should do my own research, but could someone help me out?'

Good question!  Maybe that should be answered (i.e., "proved") before recognition is granted.  Supposedly, they're Rappahannock and other Virginia Algonquians who came to New Jersey and mixed with Lenape descendants, here. 

"Also, why is it fair for the three tribes already recognized not to have undergone scrutiny, passed any actual criteria, but "new" tribes will? Criteria established by the three existing state-recognized tribes? How is that fair?"

It's not.

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#12 Mar-11-2008 07:26:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Powhatan Renape

tree hugger wrote:

Sure does! Guess it's time to edumacate myself a little bit more on all of this.

JMO but I thinks it's nuts to recognize the Powhatan Renape... and I'm not even smart!

Yup! Most of them are Nanticokes and Moors from Morrisville, with some Saponi, Rappahannock and Brotherton mixed in. Morrisville was a "High Yellow" or "Redbonz" community.

edit: these people should join their respective tribes. They fit the criteria. Half their Nanticoke and Moor members joined us when they found out what they really were.

Last edited by NanticokePiney (Mar-11-2008 07:33:pm)


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#13 Mar-11-2008 11:46:pm

bls926
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From: Texas
Registered: Oct-21-2006
Posts: 12082

Re: Powhatan Renape

sschkaak wrote:

bls wrote:

"I thought the Sandhill were recognized. Hmmm"

They consider themselves recognized by a blanket Gubernatorial Proclamation and by their various dealings with the State, over the years.  It remains to be seen whether or not the State agrees!

"Who are the Powhatan Renape? I know I should do my own research, but could someone help me out?'

Good question!  Maybe that should be answered (i.e., "proved") before recognition is granted.  Supposedly, they're Rappahannock and other Virginia Algonquians who came to New Jersey and mixed with Lenape descendants, here. 

"Also, why is it fair for the three tribes already recognized not to have undergone scrutiny, passed any actual criteria, but "new" tribes will? Criteria established by the three existing state-recognized tribes? How is that fair?"

It's not.

Thanks, sschkaak.

But aren't the Powhatan Renape already recognized by New Jersey?

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#14 Mar-12-2008 09:34:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4409

Re: Powhatan Renape

The concurrent resolutions which recognized the three tribes apparently provided only "informal recognition" (though, I don't believe this has been tested in the courts).  The present proposals would provide "formal recognition," being incorporated in the State statutes.  This is thought, by some, to be neeeded to comply with the provisions of the Indian Arts and Crafts Act, among other things.

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#15 Mar-12-2008 11:39:am

bls926
Administrator
From: Texas
Registered: Oct-21-2006
Posts: 12082

Re: Powhatan Renape

sschkaak wrote:

The concurrent resolutions which recognized the three tribes apparently provided only "informal recognition" (though, I don't believe this has been tested in the courts).  The present proposals would provide "formal recognition," being incorporated in the State statutes.  This is thought, by some, to be neeeded to comply with the provisions of the Indian Arts and Crafts Act, among other things.

Thanks sschkaak. Was wondering what the difference between "informal" and "formal" recognition was. With formal recognition, they would have the same standing as federally recognized tribes?

Don't the Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape have a representative in NCAI?

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#16 Mar-12-2008 12:53:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4409

Re: Powhatan Renape

The State of New Jersey always does everything "half-assed."   The legislature recognizes groups, then the executive branch tells the BIA that nobody is recognized--even though the State, itself, has a Commission on Indian Affairs, with representation from these three tribes!  The tribes, it appears, feel that getting their status acknowledged in the statutes will solidify their formal recognition.  I don't understand why they didn't test their current recognition status (such as it is) in the courts, but that's their call.  I don't know what the NCAI's criteria are.

The Ramapough were recognized, by resolution, by both New Jersey and New York.  I'm not sure how New York views this "informal" vs. "formal" recognition question.

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#17 Mar-12-2008 06:42:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Powhatan Renape

bls926 wrote:

Don't the Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape have a representative in NCAI?

Dr./Rev. John Norwood is our NCAI representative. He is also one of the finest tribal councilmen we ever had.
  The NCAI follows federal critera  sspaaaack.


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
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#18 Mar-12-2008 06:47:pm

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11139

Re: Powhatan Renape

What's your point Piney? I'm just trying to understand the process and New Jersey's thinking on this legislation. Which I can not find a copy of anywhere. Blah.

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#19 Mar-12-2008 07:01:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4409

Re: Powhatan Renape

Piney wrote:

"The NCAI follows federal critera  sspaaaack.

What "federal criteria"?

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#20 Mar-12-2008 07:05:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Powhatan Renape

tree hugger wrote:

What's your point Piney? I'm just trying to understand the process and New Jersey's thinking on this legislation. Which I can not find a copy of anywhere. Blah.

Roy "CrazyHorse" Johnson was really political in Burlington County. At that time J. Garfield ( Alloway) De Marco was chairman of the Republican Party (who ran the county) and the county's second largest landowner. Garfield was half 'Hamrind' and blood relatives to both the Adams and the Millers who were involved in Roy's "Tribe". This is why they are recognized. The ole political "Jersey Butt Lick".
  I hate this "tribe". May their chief Mike Adams (who's my cousin) rot and may Roy Johnson rot in Hell. Roy was a politically connected liar who was only 1/64 Nanticoke or Rappahannock and half Italian.  I don't like talking about the Powhatan Renape. They make me sick! Liars, thieves and *rectal orafices*. It pisses me off when I think about them.


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
---------------------------------------------------
      Warning:  Some Profanity
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#21 Mar-18-2008 07:52:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Powhatan Renape

sschkaak wrote:

Piney wrote:

"The NCAI follows federal critera  sspaaaack.

What "federal criteria"?

The NCAI are trying to pass a criteria for membership that all tribes prove a "continuous community" but the Alabama "tribes" are protesting it. (I wonder why hmm)


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
---------------------------------------------------
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#22 Jul-10-2008 08:16:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Powhatan Renape

I guess I should post a link. I don't like these people. Then again many are relatives and that is my opinion. They're Indian at least which is more than I can say about other "tribes" in the Tri-State Area.


     http://www.powhatan.org/


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
---------------------------------------------------
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#23 Jul-23-2008 02:09:pm

Tokipahkinao
Member
Registered: Jul-22-2008
Posts: 212

Re: Powhatan Renape

HE! Folks,

                     The fact that the Sandhill Lenape are /were (?) not recognized by the State of NJ prbably goes back to the late James "Lone Bear" Revey.

                      Herbert C Kraft  of Seton Hall U. was a very good friend to James, who's office was " down  the  street" from the University.  H erb mentioned several times to me that the only place where the two men disagreed was: Herb strongly suggested to James th at he apply to the State of NJ for state recognition, but James always said no: "We know who we are."

                       I heard him - I WAS THERE

                                      Wanishi,
                                          MaryEllen

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#24 Jul-23-2008 03:13:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11139

Re: Powhatan Renape

Thanks MaryEllen, I guess James had his reasons. He sounds like he was a great man from everything I've heard.




sidenote: for literally years, I've enjoyed your "I was there posts"

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#25 Jul-23-2008 03:14:pm

Tokipahkinao
Member
Registered: Jul-22-2008
Posts: 212

Re: Powhatan Renape

HE! Folks,

                Not too long ago, all an Indian group in NJ needed,  to be recognized by the State of NJ,  was a friendly member of the legislature who would get a bill passed to recognize them. No REAL documentary info. was  required.

                In March,1983, NJ Dept. of Environmental Protection leased 237 acres within the  RANCOCAS   STATE PARK (a "GREEN ACRES " piece of
land) for a period of 25 years to the "Powhatan Indians of Delaware Valley, Inc." For not having to pay a rental fee, the group was REQUIRED to develop a cultural Center.  That lease is up this year . . . .
               
                           Reference: The Lenape-Delaware Indian Heritage,
                                                by Herbert C. Kraft
                                                      pg.562, column 1, paragraph 53

                   

                  Up until recently  many NJ legislators were NOT aware that the Powhatan are not native to NJ. 

                   The State is creating a nature area - hiking  path connection on both sides of the Rancocas Creek ( a major RIVER in Burlington County, that flows west to the Delaware River.) The State has already taken over and built trails, etc on many areas that front along the Rancocas river bank, and expects to connect them so  people could hike ,
do nature studies, etc.  all the way to the Del. River. The Rancocas State Park property fronts on a section of the Rancocas Creek.  So . . . .

                                                         Wanishi,
                                                        MaryEllen

PS: I live 2 miles from the State Park ('It's Not a reservation")

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