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#1 Dec-15-2006 07:39:am

oldsalty
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From: Long way from the Northern Hem
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Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

http://www.californiachronicle.com/arti … leID=16950
NJ SAND HILL BAND OF INDIANS ASSERT TRIBAL SOVEREIGNTY
Carlos Estrella

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Carlos Estrella
November 21, 2006
NOTE: This is being submitted on behalf of the New Jersey Sand Hill Band of Indians

Date:November 20, 2006

From:The New Jersey Sand Hill Band of Indians

Contact: Kim Carroll – (732) 787-0761


The New Jersey Sand Hill Band of Indians is the only historically documented Native American Indian Band, Clan or Tribe to have been recognized (via Gubernatorial Proclamation) by the State of New Jersey. The New Jersey Sand Hill Indians, consisting of Lenape and Cherokee Indians has been in existence as a sovereign entity since the 1700’s as previously recorded by Dr. Herb Kraft of Seton Hall University, and unlike other Indian groups in New Jersey, has not now nor ever relinquished any title, claim, etc. relating to land or other sovereignty rights. Furthermore, the New Jersey Sand Hill Indians have not ever allowed themselves to be called anything other than Indian (or Native American), and have maintained a continuous, uninterrupted Tribal Government in Lenapahoking (New Jersey) since the 18th Century.

It has come to the attention of the New Jersey Sand Hill Band of Indians that several groups, for reasons known and unknown, have attempted to claim that they are the legitimate “recognized” tribe of New Jersey and that they have claim to lands including portions of New Jersey that are currently public lands. Additionally, some individuals who upon further examination have been shown to have NO RELATIONSHIP to the indigenous peoples of Lenapahoking are attempting to both mislead the public and the New Jersey and Federal Government, in an attempt to open casinos and other business ventures that are regulated by Federal and State Law.

The New Jersey Sand Hill Band of Indians strongly opposes these misleading and possibly illegal actions as well as the blatant attack on the New Jersey Sand Hill Indians’ sovereignty. The New Jersey Sand Hill Band of Indians also desires to both educate and inform the governments of the State of New Jersey and the United States as to the historical evidence as collected by numerous neutral parties and entities, including the Smithsonian Institute, the museums of both Neptune and Paterson, New Jersey, The New Jersey Archeological Society, news outlets in New Jersey and the records of the State of New Jersey itself. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE RECOGNITION OF THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY VIA THE AFOREMENTIONED PROCLAMATION, NO INDIAN GROUP IN THE STATE IS RECOGNIZED AS A “STATE RECOGNIZED TRIBE” BY THE GOVERNOR, LEGISLATURE OR LAWS OF THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY.

For more information, please contact the Tribal Office of the New Jersey Sand Hill Band of Indians at (732) 787-0761, or at info@sandhillindians.org. Government Officials who wish access to documentation and other information are encouraged to contact the Tribal Office.

Kim Carroll

Tribal Secretary

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#2 Sep-19-2007 12:22:am

NanticokePiney
Admin of Treehugger
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 3791

Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

This proclamation is against J. Brent Thomas. A 1/4 un-enrolled Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape whose tribal rolls are made up of Deceased Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape who is a convicted felon.
The Sand Hills never had a "continuous tribal government" until they were  somewhat organized by James "Lone Bear" Revey in the 1960s or 70s.
The current "chief" of the Sand Hill and writer of this proclamation, Sam Beeler who has a very small ( under 10 people) and suspect folowing ( he is suspect himself) keeps faxing the Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape news articles on Thomas with notes saying "Your chief is a N*****!"
  Nice guy, huh? roll


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#3 Sep-19-2007 03:04:am

sschkaak
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Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

N-P:

This statement was not written by Sam Beeler, but by another Sand Hill Indian, Carlos Estrella.

I have known Sam Beeler for several years, now.  I have never heard him utter the "N-word."  I AM aware that Sam Beeler was quoted as saying, in a newspaper article about Brent Thomas, that Thomas "looked black" (or something close to that).  Can you provide me with a copy of just one of these newspaper articles, with Sam Beeler's handwritten notation with this word in it?  It's impossible for me to believe he would do this–knowing him as I do.

I was very good friends with Jim Revey, for many years.  I have a copy of Jim's own signed certification of Sam Beeler as a Sand Hill Indian, through Sam's grandmother, Sarah Holloway.  Through another lineage, Sam is an enrolled citizen of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma.  His Certified Degree of Indian Blood is 3/4.  I've known him, his mother, one of his brothers, one of his cousins, and other Sand Hill Indians, over the years.  They have always been a very small group, but not nearly so small as you say, here.  The Sand Hill Indian Historical Society, alone, has about 40 members; and, a recent reunion at the Shark River, in Monmouth County, NJ, drew about 150 Sand Hill Indian descendants.  Jim Revey's New Jersey Indian Office is still operating–now under the Directorship of Carroll Holloway.

I can't vouch for every statement Sam or others make.  I certainly don't speak for the Sand Hill Indians.  However, the Sand Hill Indians, as such, have been an organized Indian community since, at least, 1877, at which date they adopted that name.  Chief Isaac Richardson's eagle headdress was procured shortly after this date, and was passed down to subsequent Chiefs.  Very careful records of all the Cherokee and Lenape families who make up the Sand Hill Indians have been kept for many years.

Of course, prior to 1877 the Revey family and other Lenapes lived as a remnant community in Monmouth County. 

I'm honestly shocked to read your post.  I consider John Norwood a good friend, after several years of correspondence with him.  And, I've met and corresponded with Urie Ridgway, too.  I have to know the truth of this matter.  Please see if you can possibly furnish me with a copy of this article, with Sam's objectionable notation.  This is very disturbing.

Last edited by sschkaak (Sep-19-2007 04:37:am)

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#4 Sep-19-2007 11:49:pm

NanticokePiney
Admin of Treehugger
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 3791

Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

Reverend Norwood can affirm my honesty. I have been a close cousin and a good friend of his for a long time. I am the Quaker liason to the tribe and a member of his "Prayer Circle Ministry". I can personally show you a copies of the offending pieces if you ever come to my office or the "Indian Center" but I cannot hand you a copy without the authority of our council. I can even show you copies of the envelopes they came in. Mark Gould can also verify the statements written by Beeler.
 
    Richard C. Joseph


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#5 Sep-20-2007 01:12:am

sschkaak
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Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

N-P:

Thanks for your reply.  I will investigate this very disheartening news.

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#6 Sep-22-2007 01:49:am

NanticokePiney
Admin of Treehugger
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 3791

Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

sschkaak wrote:

N-P:

Thanks for your reply.  I will investigate this very disheartening news.

Post away! I will be off in 3 weeks and over at the nearest scanner! I hate when skins fight against skins. It's a waste of energy and resources. It is why nobody gets anything accomplished. The skins up north are attacking us when they should be doing something positive or going after those proven fakes in P.A.
  I am one of the ones fighting Thomas tooth and nail. Every article written about him is a "fluff piece" and the writers of the articles won't even correct their mistakes or research him. Then we have fellow Lenape attacking us?? Bullshit!


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#7 Sep-22-2007 02:02:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
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Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

There is no fellow Lenape attacking you.  Sam Beeler, as Chief of the Sand Hill Indians, was asked, by a reporter, about a newspaper article on the attempts of James Brent Thomas to establish Indian gaming in New Jersey.  He made the observation that Thomas–this fellow:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o128/RayWhritenour/JamesBrentThomas.jpg

"looks black."  Beeler never said a word about the Nanticoke-Lenni Lenape.  However, since Thomas is related, by blood, to some members of the Nanticoke-Lenni Lenape, certain members of that tribe took offence at this observation (which appeared in a news article), and one prominent tribal member telephoned Beeler to register her concern about this type of language.  Thereupon, Beeler sent the Nanticoke-Lenni Lenape a *PRIVATE* message, which included the photo of Thomas and the note in question.  He used the words, "your chief," evidently because it wasn't Thomas, but one of your folks who called him on his language.  None of Beeler's message to your tribe was public knowledge until it was made public, in this forum. 

As for the wording of Beeler's note, I have contacted a member of the Nanticoke-Lenni Lenape Council and he tells me that neither he, nor Chief Gould, know anything about Beeler using the "N-word" in his notation.  So, apparently you have copy which the Chief and one Council member, at a minimum, have never seen nor heard of.

Last edited by sschkaak (Sep-22-2007 03:55:pm)

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#8 Sep-22-2007 02:20:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 2959

Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

I should add that Sand Hill Indians have intermarried with whites and blacks, too, over the years.  Love and attraction know no racial bounds.  So, phenotypes range from black to white to Indian, and all combinations thereof.  No one knows this better than Chief Sam Beeler, and he embraces all the Sand Hill Indian people.  This is why such a comment as he is alleged, here, to have made, seems so out of character, to me.

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#9 Sep-22-2007 10:29:pm

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 3791

Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

That very article you displayed was also mailed to the tribal center with "your chief looks black"  written  with a black marker in capital letters  across the top. It was mailed from Beeler's office. I have a copy of that and the envelope it came in too.

  I didn't explain it well the first time. A article about Thomas from the " Philadelphia Enquirer"  was mailed to the center from Beeler's office with the disparging statement written across the top in black marker. That is what I meant by a "note".


  edit: after the second article came Chief Mark called him on the phone and tried to explain that he is not us.

Last edited by NanticokePiney (Sep-22-2007 10:32:pm)


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#10 Sep-23-2007 12:05:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
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Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

Did Sam Beeler write "Your chief is a N*****!" or not?

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#11 Sep-23-2007 02:13:am

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 3791

Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

Yes! He did! Among the many things that were written on newspaper articles he personally mailed to our tribal center.
You want my opinion Mr. Raymond Whritenour? He is a fraud! He's has fake Keetowah papers and he is a nutless troublemaking fraud who can't sign his own work. along with his clueless buddy Ricky (Hawkeye) Cook who claimed to be ,Mohawk, then Seneca, and now Cherokee and his pet walleyed "tribal police chief" who signs his "declarations".
  My other opinion. Your opinion is worthless. You are not Lenape or Nanticoke. You are not even NdN. You have no business in NdN business other then history and language. You are a brilliant historian and a even better linguist. I won't begrudge you that. But stay outta the fight. If you have a problem with me. Take it up with my chief or Reverend Norwood.
End of conversation.

  Richard C. Joseph


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
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#12 Sep-23-2007 03:21:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 2959

Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

N-P:

Just wondering why someone like you, who called an elderly lady, with many *REAL* Lenape friends, a "fat whitebread groundhog," on a public forum; and, calls all whites "cultural scavangers," on this forum and others, is so upset about alleged racist remarks made by others.

In any case, I'll wait to see that notation when you scan it and post it, here; at which time I'll take it up with Sam Beeler.

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#13 Sep-23-2007 05:33:am

NanticokePiney
Admin of Treehugger
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 3791

Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

sschkaak wrote:

N-P:

Just wondering why someone like you, who called an elderly lady, with many *REAL* Lenape friends, a "fat whitebread groundhog," on a public forum; and, calls all whites "cultural scavangers," on this forum and others, is so upset about alleged racist remarks made by others.

In any case, I'll wait to see that notation when you scan it and post it, here; at which time I'll take it up with Sam Beeler.

Like I said in the PM. It had to do with MaryEllen. Who bashed my tribe for years.  I called Indo-Europeans "cultural scavengers" but the Finno-Urgic people I think are actually the whitest considering they introduced the "blond-blue" genes. *REAL*?? What is fake? Do tell !
  Indo-Aryans, since they crawled from their caves in Afghanistan are cultural scavengers. They stole their culture from the Afro-Asiatic Dravidians when they migrated into India ( i.e. Vedic -evolving into Keltic), then in their migration across Central Asia in Europe "borrowed" from both the Finno-Urgic ( which became Germanic -see Thor, Woden etc.) and Altaic. Your Alphabet comes from Semites (Afro-Asiatic Phonecians) . The Roman culture, the foundation of you political structure and cultural structure comes from the Greek which came from the Lydian i.e. Altaic ( Turkic- see Mongolian) . Borrowers since the beginning .
  Scavengers are always the most sucessful animals. I learned that as a child in the Pine Barrens before I could spell. ( see turkey vultures and coyotes).
  I'm not upset about racist remarks. I'm upset about skins attacking skins when we should be coming together to deal with real problems.

  P.S. I don't care what you think. I know what I have and have seen.
Call John again. Tell him what a @#$% I am.....Wait! At least I know I'm a @#$%.......................


  EDIT: edited out personal attacks and vulgarity- Sorry T.H.

Last edited by NanticokePiney (Sep-23-2007 01:27:pm)


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#14 Sep-23-2007 10:01:am

oldsalty
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From: Long way from the Northern Hem
Registered: Dec-01-2006
Posts: 901

Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

My original post was intended to highlight the recognition of the Sandhills in New Jersey. It was not intended to pit Lenape against Lenape on an open forum.This defeats the purpose of recognition and understanding for all those concerned.  I have learned a lesson and I apologise to both the Sandhills and Nanticoke.
Old Salty

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#15 Sep-23-2007 12:20:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 9782

Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

Well Good Morning. hmm

I get to be the admin that posts this. Yay..not.

While I think this exchange is an important one to get to the facts of what's going on I'd like to remind everyone of two things.

1. Rules

* Attacking a member/moderator/administrator of Woodland Indian forum here is not acceptable.

* If you disagree with a topic posted, we encourage your input and opinions, attack the message NOT the messenger

2. MOST Importantly. We have school districts coming here daily by googling. We've hit one of the top spots on google in searches. Please keep that in mind. You can say exactly what you want to, but in a more uh creative way.

This isn't posted publicly to point any fingers. Since this is our first official "argument" I wanted to remind everyone that it is going to happen. I happen to feel that sometimes truth only comes out of disagreements. Carry on, and please edit posts appropriately.


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#16 Sep-23-2007 01:20:pm

NanticokePiney
Admin of Treehugger
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 3791

Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

sschkaak wrote:

N-P:

Just wondering why someone like you, who called an elderly lady, with many *REAL* Lenape friends

Lets go back to this comment. Are you saying that the Nanticoke Lenni- Lenape are not real???


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#17 Sep-23-2007 01:30:pm

bls926
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From: Texas
Registered: Oct-21-2006
Posts: 12082

Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

oldsalty wrote:

My original post was intended to highlight the recognition of the Sandhills in New Jersey. It was not intended to pit Lenape against Lenape on an open forum.This defeats the purpose of recognition and understanding for all those concerned.  I have learned a lesson and I apologise to both the Sandhills and Nanticoke.
Old Salty

Old Salty, you didn't do anything wrong; there's nothing for you to apologize about. You brought up an interesting topic; not your fault that everyone doesn't see eye-to-eye on it. You didn't pit Lenape against Lenape. So, go ahead and post about anything you're interested in. Don't let this current discussion make you leery about bringing up new topics.

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#18 Sep-23-2007 01:30:pm

NanticokePiney
Admin of Treehugger
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 3791

Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

oldsalty wrote:

My original post was intended to highlight the recognition of the Sandhills in New Jersey. It was not intended to pit Lenape against Lenape on an open forum.This defeats the purpose of recognition and understanding for all those concerned.  I have learned a lesson and I apologise to both the Sandhills and Nanticoke.
Old Salty

Ray (sschkaak) is not Lenape and the Sand Hills do not have state recognition. This statement they issued attacks the 3 other tribes in a very obvious way.


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#19 Sep-23-2007 02:30:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 2959

Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

Folks:

I was in the middle of a post when all these new posts started flooding in, so I'll try again.

I am not Lenape.  I am not Indian.  I'm white. 

By "REAL Lenape,"  I mean Nora Thompson Dean, Louise Dean, Dee Ketchum, Mike Pace, Paula Pechonick, Cathy Chadwick-Ciccone, etc.

MaryEllen has sometimes criticized certain folks for wearing pan-Indian, powwow style regalia to what are supposed to be historic period events.  I have never heard her call the Nanticoke-Lenni Lenape people "frauds."  Quite to the contrary, as a matter of fact.

If *I* thought the Nanticoke-Lenni Lenape were "not real" would I have shared my Lenape lessons and translations with them?  No.

As I said, originally, I'm not a spokesman for the Sand Hill Indians; however, I have Sand Hill Indian friends and acquaintances–including Sam Beeler.  Anyone who says he's a "fraud" (if that means "non-Indian" or "non-Sand Hill") is not telling the truth.

As for state "recognition":  There are several kinds of state recognition.  There is "informal recognition," where a tribe is recognized via resolution of the legislature.  There is "formal recognition," where acknowledgment of a tribe is incorporated in the state statutes.  Only when recognized by this latter method are tribal members allowed, by federal law, to call their art and/or craftwork "American Indian made" or "Native American made."  NO NEW JERSEY TRIBE HAS THIS "FORMAL RECOGNITION," though three groups do have "informal recognition." 

There is, though, another kind of state recognition.  This is acknowledgment via gubernatorial proclamation.  ALL LENAPES–INCLUDING THEIR DESCENDANTS NOW LIVING IN NEW JERSEY–were granted this type of recognition by Governor Kean.  By this, the Sand Hill Indians do have state recognition, too.  (In fact, it was Jim Revey, a Sand Hill Indian, who drafted most of the language employed in this proclamation.)

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#20 Sep-23-2007 03:08:pm

NanticokePiney
Admin of Treehugger
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 3791

Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

sschkaak wrote:

By "REAL Lenape,"  I mean Nora Thompson Dean, Louise Dean, Dee Ketchum, Mike Pace, Paula Pechonick, Cathy Chadwick-Ciccone, etc.

What? not Pat Rossello from the Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape? Did you slip again???? 
 
  What roadapples!  MaryEllen can defend herself and has more than enough intellect to do it. and she doesn't need you as her "knight in shining  amour". I apologized to her long ago. This thread is about Beeler not about fights on 'Lenapehocking Longhouse'.
  This proclamation attacks the other three tribes in New Jersey and Beeler is full of "pasture paddys". I will send T.H. the offensive material to put up as soon as harvest season is over. Then again, I don't have to prove anything to you...........


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#21 Sep-23-2007 04:26:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
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Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

Your mind-reading skills are pathetic.  My list of a few "real Lenape" was hardly meant to be exclusive, as was evident to anyone who read the rest of my post.  That is, anyone with at least half a brain.

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#22 Sep-23-2007 04:54:pm

NanticokePiney
Admin of Treehugger
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 3791

Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

sschkaak wrote:

Your mind-reading skills are pathetic.  My list of a few "real Lenape" was hardly meant to be exclusive, as was evident to anyone who read the rest of my post.  That is, anyone with at least half a brain.

Ah! you are now resorting to personal attacks. You must be guilty of something if you do not have a intelligent retort................

  Oh! by the way. Your language classes are open to anyone who pays money. Do not use that as a acknowledgment of recognition. It's not..............


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#23 Sep-23-2007 05:17:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 2959

Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

N-P:

Why do you persist in saying anything that happens to come into your head?  I've never charged one penny for my language lessons.  Where do you come up with this stuff?  Probably from the same place you get most of the B.S. you post–i.e., your own imagination.

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#24 Sep-23-2007 06:44:pm

NanticokePiney
Admin of Treehugger
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 3791

Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

sschkaak wrote:

N-P:

Why do you persist in saying anything that happens to come into your head?  I've never charged one penny for my language lessons.  Where do you come up with this stuff?  Probably from the same place you get most of the B.S. you post–i.e., your own imagination.

Why were you crying you *lost* money on AITF? You had have wanted it in the first place.
  Back to topic, lets see.......hmmm........MaryEllen?..........naw we covered that.........ehh! Indo-Aryans "borrowing" culture??..........It would take me a few days but a prime military example is Rome conquered the known world with Keltic and Phonecian spears, helmets, transportation methods and road engineering skills, Iberian swords and Lydian armour.............  Beeler?........I'll get to that.............*REAL* Lenapes?..........oh yeah! In anger there is truth........So are you saying were not real or are you still backpedaling???? Your a pretty evasive guy so..............
  Actually I am starting to enjoy you and this thread. smile


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
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#25 Sep-23-2007 07:18:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 2959

Re: Sand Hill Lenape of New Jersey issue statement

N-P:

Am I saying you're not "real Lenapes."  God!  Are you really this dense?  Go back and read what I said.

There's nothing left I can say to you which won't violate the rules of this forum.  I'll leave it to our readers to decide whatever they will regarding this exchange.

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