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#1 Sep-09-2007 10:12:pm

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

When I returned from my many travels I started hearing that Bob Ruth was Stockbridge Munsee. I am still wondering where this came from but this is his true bio that I had gathered from various people.
   Robert Ruth was born and raised in P.A and he was white. When he first started to hang around with Bill Thompson he claimed white. Bill Thompson decided his "heart was red" and conducted a ceremony to "make him Delaware". Larry "Bear" Peterson stood for him in the ceremony. After he took the helm of the EDN when Bill became sick he suddenly was PA Delaware. Bill then entered the hospital terminally ill. Larry Peterson contacted Bob Redhawk to find out about Bill Thompson and Bob told him "Bill was not of his mind, do not visit him". Larry went anyway. Bill then told Larry he regretted "creating" Bob. I asked Larry about the Stockbridge Munsee story any Larry is finding me answers. I will post them as I have them.cool


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#2 Sep-12-2007 04:57:pm

dennison
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Registered: Sep-10-2007
Posts: 51

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

I thought he was of the Unami Clan . LOL A few years ago that is what he told the newspapers. Now he is a Stockbridge Munsee interesting. sad

Here's the link 

http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1064338065


Al

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#3 Sep-12-2007 10:15:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

dennison wrote:

I thought he was of the Unami Clan . LOL A few years ago that is what he told the newspapers. Now he is a Stockbridge Munsee interesting. sad

Here's the link 

http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1064338065


Al

That is what a researcher from the Heite Foundation said to me " he was Stockbridge".
  Bill Thompson was a Sand Hill and Larry Peterson is Shinnecock and they made him so I guess he's really  Adopted Sandcock. Or is it Shinn Hill ???tongue


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#4 Jan-03-2008 01:20:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

Sticky this Nii Huuma. I've been threatened!cool

Can anyone find any of the articles where this fraud and that other Wasicus Jim Beers conned that old woman out of the Quick Farm. I've been looking all over for stuff and now can't find them.


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#5 Jan-03-2008 01:43:pm

bls926
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From: Texas
Registered: Oct-21-2006
Posts: 12082

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

Pike County Courier > News
Updated: February 22, 2007


Lenapes aid Tom Quick’s descendent in saving family farm over to Lenapes


http://images.townnews.com/strausnews.com/content/articles/2007/02/22/pike_county_courier/news/3.jpg
Jane Quick, center, is pictured at the farm with Jim Beers of the Lenape Nation, his daughter, Tammanend, and Beers’ niece, Brook DePaul. (Photo by David Hulse)

LACKAWAXEN - Jane Quick finds the idea of family farms being transformed into town houses or hotel units unacceptable.

Quick, now in her seventh decade of life, is not a person to sit back and do nothing about a bad situation. Raised on a farm in the days when Pike County’s claim to fame was “rocks and rattlesnakes,” she still drives a four-wheel drive pickup and cleans houses for a living. She can handle a gun and a horse, and she clearly knows how to take care of herself.

But the development all around the 110-acre farm at Whitehall Corners has been a different kind of problem. Several years ago, she said, “I couldn’t manage the farm alone anymore and the family wouldn’t help. I had to do something.”

She tried going to the township government looking for a program that might preserve the farm. “All they were interested in was tourism. They were afraid the Indians would want to do gambling,” she recalled.

Then in 2000, she read a newspaper article about members of the Lenape Nation making a ceremonial canoe trip down the length of the river and their desire to establish themselves on their ancestral lands.

She got in touch with the article writer and started making connections with the Lenapes, thinking they might be the answer to her problem. Those first connections were a bit awkward, she recalled. “I scared the hell out of ‘em,” she said with typical candor.

She said she scared them initially because her family name was not just any family name, and she was not just any Quick.

Quick’s late husband Harold was a direct descendent of Tom Quick, the notorious “Indian Slayer” of the 18th century. In additon, she and the farm were originally Tanners, who were also related to Tom Quick.

Things warmed up when the Lenapes did some genealogical work and found that there was also a Native American strain in Quick’s colorful bloodline. “They started coming up here regularly. I felt good about them right away. They were like people you always knew.”

She recalled showing some of the Lenape around the farm and how they discovered a ceremonial rock circle near the pig and chicken coops. “I always thought they were just rocks,” she said.

With the help of the Delaware Highlands Conservancy, Quick worked out an agreement for a conservation easement and tribal ownership of the farm. She retains lifelong rights on the property, her home and the stable where she keeps her horse.

Lenape spokesman Jim Beers said the nation will restore the farm, and use it for cultural and environmental education. They plan to raise organic crops on the land and one day develop a stay-over summer camp where inner-city kids can come “learn about the earth, walking in the woods and canoeing.”

http://www.strausnews.com/articles/2007 … news/3.txt



Discussion here:

FYI: Sickening
http://forum.americanindiantribe.com/vi … php?t=6187

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#6 Jan-03-2008 01:50:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

I owe you 2 sushi dinners Bon. Thanks greatly!!!!


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#7 Jan-03-2008 01:55:pm

bls926
Administrator
From: Texas
Registered: Oct-21-2006
Posts: 12082

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

You're very welcome. And I'm going to hold you to that. wink See you real soon.

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#8 Jan-03-2008 01:56:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11101

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

Stickied and can you email me and tell me what's going on please?

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#9 Jan-03-2008 02:01:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4349

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

Okay.  I've got a couple questions.  Why did Bill Thompson's granddaughter post at Lenapehoking_Long-House, a couple years back, that she wished she could find some evidence of their Indian ancestry?  And, when did Bill Thompson become a "Sand Hill Indian"?  That would come as surprising news to the Sand Hill Indians I've known!

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#10 Jan-03-2008 02:42:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

Rita posted last year and I told her where to look

Bill came from a branch of the Thompsons in Ocean and Burlington Counties. This branch is cranberry growers who keep to themselves.  This branch has never been active with the tribe but only married "Hamrinds" ( Pineys of Indian Descent who only marry other Pineys of Indian Descent). Bill was their family outcast. I know the whole family Ray. I have been hunting and bushwacking their swamps ( which are contiguous to my property) since I was a kid. They acknowledge they are skins but they want to be left alone. Like the Pooles up in PA.
  I tried to keep "Hamrind" info off the web because of that fraudulant demented pole smoker Walter Anderson is always trying to get Piney info to add to his repetoir of road apples  but since he is dying from AIDS and his tribe came crashing down it no longer matters.
  Oh! I plan to release all my "Hamrind" information ( some which ties into the Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape) to the public as soon as I see Walter's obituary.  I'll make sure John sends it to you.

  Rich


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#11 Jan-08-2008 04:30:pm

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11101

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

http://www.pikegis.org/pike/dataTab2.asp

Name: TRI-STATE UNITY COALITION 
Address 1:  Control/Account Number: 025513
Address 2: PO BOX 752 Map Number: 012.00-01-18 - 
City: MILFORD District: 05
State: PA Zip: 18337-  Ward: 0
Description 1: 105.48 AC ACT 319 
Description 2: HOUSE BARN GARAGE 
 
Deed Book: 2145 Land Assessed Value: 4870
Deed Page: R192 Improved Assessed Value: 8890
STEB Code: 20 Assessed Total: 13760
STEB Date: 11/18/2005 Land Use: A02
STEB Con: 10 Change Date: 12/16/2005
Grantor: QUICK, JANE A/K/A CARRIE JANE Acreage: 105.48
Info Code: 59

Name: TRI-STATE UNITY COALITION 
Address 1:  Control/Account Number: 025364
Address 2: PO BOX 752 Map Number: 012.00-01-19 - 
City: MILFORD District: 05
State: PA Zip: 18337-  Ward: 0
Description 1: 1.75 AC (QUICK, C. - LIFE EST) 
Description 2: HOUSE OUTBUILDING 
 
Deed Book: 2145 Land Assessed Value: 4190
Deed Page: R192 Improved Assessed Value: 10480
STEB Code:  Assessed Total: 14670
STEB Date: 11/18/2005 Land Use: R05
STEB Con: 0 Change Date: 12/16/2005
Grantor: QUICK, JANE A/K/A CARRIE JANE Acreage: 1.75
Info Code: R7

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#12 Jan-08-2008 04:47:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

Beers named his daughter after a dead sachiim? Tammanend. That is so wrong. Some of the Stockbridges are acknowledging Ruth. I find this strange because some  Nanticoke Lenape families have family ties with some Stockbridge families.
  What's with the assessment info? I am not familiar with any of it other than it is about 106 acres.


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#13 Jan-08-2008 05:01:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11101

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

The deed isn't in Lenape Nation Inc.'s name. It's in this http://tristateunity.veneziale.net/ places name who claims to be 501c3 and I can't find a record anywhere of that. Also Jimmy boy is on the board of directors.

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#14 Jan-08-2008 07:04:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

Did you read through that website?   I am going to go over it more thoroughly. It seems rather Newagy and weird though.


Edit: It looks like this Robert Veneziale is the money behind everything. It also looks the Lenape Nation is hooking up with the homosexual community and the United Way for support. Weird! Really weird.

Last edited by NanticokePiney (Jan-08-2008 07:47:pm)


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#15 Jan-08-2008 07:41:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4349

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

N-P wrote:

"Beers named his daughter after a dead sachiim? Tammanend. That is so wrong."

That is his son's name.  Tamanend was probably only a nickname for that chief, since the Lenape, themselves, gave that name to Colonel George Morgan, the fur trader, whom they adopted in the late eighteenth century.  So, the usual name-giving prohibition probably doesn't apply.

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#16 Jan-08-2008 09:05:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11101

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

*cough* Piney it's not newagey that's the point. The point is Ms. Quick had no idea who her land was being handed over to. If you get your feelers out , you'll find out it's a lot more.

Let's evaluate it so far...

1. Lenape Nation is editing their website as we speak.

2. TSUC is claiming to be non profit, when they don't have any record anywhere of being one. Yep I tried every state they claim and not only went to the IRS site but also made a call.

3. Someone riddle me why this "coalition" has ties in real estate development and why do you think Jimmy was put on the board of directors? His intellect?

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#17 Jan-09-2008 02:31:pm

bls926
Administrator
From: Texas
Registered: Oct-21-2006
Posts: 12082

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

Looks like someone really took advantage of Jane Quick; well, several someones.
Maybe she isn't the only one who was taken advantage of.

You know, back when I first read the article about Ms Quick deeding her land over to the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania, I was skeptical. Although not as familiar with this group a year ago as I am today, I did know they were not a real Tribe/Nation. Their members may be descendants of Lenape; there may even be a few full-bloods in their group; but they are not a Tribe. You can't set up your own Nation, no matter how much blood you have. There is no continuous group here; no government-to-government relationship. These people couldn't qualify as a Nation if their life depended on it. That being said, I still didn't see the harm in Ms Quick deeding her farm to them. I thought they were going to take care of it for her, make necessary repairs, pay the property taxes, start an organic farm, create a retreat for inner-city kids. Ms Quick would continue to live on her farm. All was right with the world. Little did I know.

The farm wasn't even deeded over to the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania. It's in the name of Tri-State Unity Coalition. Wonder why? Then to learn that Jim Beer sits on the Board of Directors for TSUC, I really start to wonder what's going on. Who's scamming whom here? Looks like they were all conning Ms Quick. Are Beer and Tri-State Unity Coalition scamming the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania? It's rich to think the scammers are themselves being conned.

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#18 Jan-09-2008 03:14:pm

bls926
Administrator
From: Texas
Registered: Oct-21-2006
Posts: 12082

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

Question about Robert Red Hawk Ruth . . . Who is he and where did he come from?

Last night I was reading an old issue of the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania's newsletter. Bob Skelton was telling his story about how he came to be part of the group. Guess he'd always known he was descended from Lenape, just not all the details. After he received a copy of his genealogy, he said he contacted the Lenape in Oklahoma, but he was ignored. After dealing with this for a while, he attended the 'Lenape Tears' powwow, put on by the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania, seeking guidance. At this point he contacted Bob Red Hawk in Wisconsin, who helped him. Also found out that he was related to some of these people. yada yada yada. http://lenapenation.org/LENAPE%20NATION … 202006.pdf

That made me wonder what Ruth was doing in Wisconsin. Who was he connected to out there?

Another question. Ruth was considered a sub-chief under Bill Thompson. From what Piney posted at the beginning of this thread, he certainly acted the part while Thompson was in the hospital. Why wasn't he made chief after Thompson died? Why did Chuck DeMund become chief at that point. Ruth didn't get his chance at it until after DeMund left, right? Does anyone know why DeMund left the Nation? Was that his decision or the group's?

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#19 Jan-09-2008 03:40:pm

bls926
Administrator
From: Texas
Registered: Oct-21-2006
Posts: 12082

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

Same issue of the newsletter, December 2006, has a section in Memory of Chief William "Whippoorwill" Thompson. Says he was "born in the Pine Barrens of New Jersey and raised in the cranberry bogs near a stream called Kettle Run. He enjoyed a childhood of hunting and trapping with his Lenape father."
http://lenapenation.org/LENAPE%20NATION … 202006.pdf

Don't know a whole lot about the Sand Hill Band and/or the Lenape, so this question might seem stupid to some of y'all. Are all Sand Hill mixed Lenape-Cherokee, or are there some who retained their Lenape culture/blood and others who have retained their Cherokee culture/blood? I'll be honest, in the past I have heard some say the Sand Hill are not a Tribe. They contend that they are descendants of Lenape and Cherokee and nothing more. I only know what I've read. The only reason I'm bringing it up is in relation to Bill Thompson and who he is/was. If he was Sand Hill, why did he leave them and form his own Lenape Tribe? Or could he have been Lenape (with no Cherokee blood) and still been born Sand Hill? I'm confused. Any way you look at it though, there was no way any of these people could form their own Nation in the early 1970's. What's that? Over 100 years without continuous community?


Edit to add: A little more research and I found:

Centuries of intermarrying produced the Sand Hill Band of Indians, a direct result of the miscegenation of the Raritan-Lenape and the Keetoowah-Cherokee Indians. Today, certain segments of the Tribe maintain a distinct Cherokee identity while others are solely Lenape ( Delaware ). http://sandhillindians.org/

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#20 Jan-09-2008 05:43:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4349

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

I have no idea if Bill "Whippoorwill" Thompson was part-Indian.  Where's the evidence?  He was *NOT* a Sand Hill Indian.  Have you seen the Sand Hill Indian posts on the Lenape part of this forum?  I'd rather not answer questions about Sand Hill Indians on this thread.  It just confuses the issues.

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#21 Jan-09-2008 08:12:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

Ray,
  Bill was a Thompson and Holloway . I know that for a *FACT*. He was also a Gaskill  which ties him to the Nanticoke Lenape. His family were woodjins and had nothing to do with the people farther north. He hung out with my grandfather, Buster (Wayandaga) Pierce who also created many of these schmucks himself. If Wayne , who still owns the woods and bogs was computer literate I wouldn't even be posting this stuff for fear of being on the receiving end of buckshot and being banned from his side of the swamp. They were never active with the tribe or any other. They wanted to be left alone.

Bon,
  Bob was in Wisconsin smoozing with the Stockbridge which he had somehow snowed. Someone told me he faked a geneology but without his personal stats I have no way to find out. But he never claimed indian. Larry ( Bear) Peterson said he was "made" Lenape at a ceremony conducted by Bill. After that was when he started making claims. Larry lives in a shack outside of Woodstown and isn't computer literate. But I bring him to our Powwow all the time and he'll tell anyone who asks.

  Aunt Hugger,
Beers' wife is actually Italian. I wonder if she is any relation to this Veneziale guy. Nobody seems to be able to find out her maiden name and the ones that know it are being closed mouth. I would love to find out her real name. That could be the connection.

   edit: Bill was also was a Crummel which some in the Pines claim descendant of Indian Ann but they are Cherokee according to Lone Bear's website. But looking at the Sandhill website  I see that Bill was completely from the Cherokee side of the Sandhill.
   There is also Holloways in Browns Mills and Crummels in Indian Mills who have no ties to the Sandhill but the blood is there. They are still Sandhill families.

Last edited by NanticokePiney (Jan-09-2008 08:23:pm)


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#22 Jan-09-2008 08:34:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11101

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

Aunt Hugger,
Beers' wife is actually Italian. I wonder if she is any relation to this Veneziale guy. Nobody seems to be able to find out her maiden name and the ones that know it are being closed mouth. I would love to find out her real name. That could be the connection.

Yeah I know, her sister was the one that dropped the "Italian" bomb. I hear they aren't together anymore though.

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#23 Jan-09-2008 08:53:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4349

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

N-P:

There are plenty of Reveys, Thompsons, Holloways, Richardsons, etc., etc., who were never Sand Hill Indians.  Sand Hill Indians are descended from specific people who congregated at the Sand Hill home of Ike Richardson, who organized in the late 1870's under this name, and whose rolls date from the 1880's.  If you're not one of those folks' descendants, then you're not a Sand Hill Indian, whether you're related to them or not.  For instance, you may be related to someone among the Anadarko Delawares, but that doesn't make you a tribal member of that nation.  I, myself, have both Ashton and Hill ancestry, but that doesn't make me a Sand Hill Indian.

Last edited by sschkaak (Nov-26-2017 12:22:pm)

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#24 Jan-09-2008 09:06:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

Oh!  I get you. I misinterpeted. Well, Now you know Bill's background. There are Ashtons and Hills down here among us. My Aunt Bonita is a Ashton. Did you ever tell Dr. Norwood your ancestry. We acknowledge family ties even if they don't make blood quantum. You can't enroll but you get a little "collateral card" saying your family.


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#25 Jan-09-2008 10:12:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4349

Re: Robert "Red Hawk" Ruth

N-P:

I'm Euro-American (at least 7/8 - probably more).  I consider myself white (which I am), and am very comfortable in my skin and culture.  Rev. Norwood knows something of my background, though we've never spoken of family names.  I have no desire for any kind of recognition or identity card, though I can understand the feelings of those who do.  My interests in Lenape culture, history and language arose, initially, because of where I live, and that attraction has yet to fade, after three decades.  I claim no more than this as a reason for being on this forum (or any other).

Last edited by sschkaak (Nov-26-2017 12:23:pm)

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