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#1 Nov-17-2015 04:32:pm

Kavik
Visitor
Registered: Jul-15-2014
Posts: 131

Grammar Question

How would one use the "-ing" for of the verb (participle maybe - I seem to be drawing a blank today!) in a phrase like a name?

In other words if I wanted to say something like "Standing Squirrel"  - yes, it's a silly name, but I wanted to see how it would apply to something animate.

Is there a specific form of the verb that's used? For example with 'standing' - I think nipai is the infinitive "to stand", while 'nipu' is 'he is standing'.

Would the example for 'standing' apply to other verbs? Flying, spotted, walking, etc.??

Woudl itbe a form specific to naming conventions or just a general term, i.e. 'Standing Bear sees the standing bear in the woods" - same construction for 'standing bear' in both instances, or something totally different??

Thanks!

PS - It always amazes me to see the similarity between Lenape and Western Abenaki - squirril in Lenape is 'xanikw' where WA has 'psanikw' (actually the meaning here is 'black squirrel'), but you can see where Lenape has 'x', WA has 's' (xkuk - skog for snake; same word as WA pronounces 'o' halfway between the 'o' and 'u' in Lenape).

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#2 Nov-17-2015 05:51:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4453

Re: Grammar Question

How would one use the "-ing" for of the verb (participle maybe - I seem to be drawing a blank today!) in a phrase like a name?

In other words if I wanted to say something like "Standing Squirrel"  - yes, it's a silly name, but I wanted to see how it would apply to something animate.

Is there a specific form of the verb that's used? For example with 'standing' - I think nipai is the infinitive "to stand", while 'nipu' is 'he is standing'.


Three (or four) ways:

nipait xanikw or xanikw nipait = "one-who-stands squirrel" or "squirrel who-stands" - both use participle as descriptor.

nipai xanikw = "standing squirrel" - uses prenoun as descriptor.

nipawanikw = "standing-squirrel" - uses bound forms as descriptor + noun.


Would the example for 'standing' apply to other verbs? Flying, spotted, walking, etc.??

Yes.

Would it be a form specific to naming conventions or just a general term, i.e. 'Standing Bear sees the standing bear in the woods" - same construction for 'standing bear' in both instances, or something totally different??

All could be used for a name (probably a nickname in Lenape).  All but the last one could be used as general terms.  The last one would probably only be used for a name, in this case; although, there are some words where this rule doesn't hold. 

Thanks!

PS - It always amazes me to see the similarity between Lenape and Western Abenaki - squirril in Lenape is 'xanikw' where WA has 'psanikw' (actually the meaning here is 'black squirrel'), but you can see where Lenape has 'x', WA has 's' (xkuk - skog for snake; same word as WA pronounces 'o' halfway between the 'o' and 'u' in Lenape).


Well... Their common Proto-Algonquian and Eastern Algonquian origins frequently show themselves.  Interestingly, the Delaware (Munsee & Northern Unami) use a completely different word for "black squirrel" or "fox squirrel" - psakwulunjeew ("he-has-sticky-fingers").

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#3 Nov-18-2015 11:34:am

Kavik
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Registered: Jul-15-2014
Posts: 131

Re: Grammar Question

Thanks - this helps a lot!

If bound forms are used, will it typically change the intial consonant of the second word? I know 'x' seems to change a lot in Lenape 9as well as 'w', I think).

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#4 Nov-18-2015 12:16:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4453

Re: Grammar Question

Kavik wrote:

Thanks - this helps a lot!

Yuh!

If bound forms are used, will it typically change the intial consonant of the second word?

Not exactly.  Often, the initial consonant of the second word will be dropped, if it is also the initial letter.  Sometimes, the bound form of the second semantic element is somewhat different or completely different than the free-standing form.  In the example given, nipaw- is the stem meaning "standing" and -anikw is the bound form for "squirrel."  It isn't a case of x changing to w.  The w in this stem is an at-risk sound that was usually dropped in Southern Unami.  Thus, nipai, instead of the original nipawi (as it is in Munsee and Northern Unami).  HOWEVER, that underlying w is restored when adding certain suffixes, such as this bound form, -anikw.

I know 'x' seems to change a lot in Lenape 9as well as 'w', I think).

Any examples?  It may be true, but I'm not sure I understand exactly what it is you're saying, here.

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#5 Nov-18-2015 12:47:pm

Suckachsinheet
Member
Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 980

Re: Grammar Question

Sschkaak, you bowl me over with your knowledge. I still hope to find time to return to the language studies. There just aren't enough hours in the day...


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#6 Nov-18-2015 01:02:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4453

Re: Grammar Question

And the great part is that I can say anything and nobody knows whether it's right or wrong!  lol

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#7 Nov-18-2015 02:11:pm

Kavik
Visitor
Registered: Jul-15-2014
Posts: 131

Re: Grammar Question

Actually, your example of the 'w' is what I was thinking of with respect to the 'w' dropping out and "re-appearing"

Yeah, Western Abenaki has that too - free and bound forms of the same word.

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