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#1 Jun-10-2014 02:29:pm

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11054

Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

Hello our lovely LNP visitors.

Here's your chance. Registration is fully open, we're waiting.. hit us with it. big_smile


Ready? Go....

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#2 Jun-10-2014 07:35:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4299
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Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

Shouldn't be difficult, since it's a requirement of theirs, as stated on their website:

"If you have verifiable Lenape Ancestry and would like to enroll in the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania you can download our enrollment form here."

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#3 Jun-11-2014 02:07:pm

tree hugger
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Posts: 11054

Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

I thought I'd help them along a bit. Just trying to be of assistance wink

From Life as a Lenape: November 2009  http://www.tnonline.com/2009/nov/13/life-lenape


Shelley DePaul of Gilbert is the Assistant Chief of the Lenape (Len-ah-pay) Nation in Pennsylvania and she has made it her mission to help keep the Lenape Nation alive and to revive the Lenape language.

"My family is from here in this area. I began looking into my geneaology and learned that many of our ancestors married a Lenape native," says Shelley.

She learned that one of the first settlers to the area, Johannes Kunkle, married a Lenape, as did other settlers. She traced her own Lenape heritage to her grandfather, Robert Seipler.

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#4 Jun-11-2014 02:34:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4299
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Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

I sincerely hope she does (and other LNP members do) have Lenape ancestry; but, just saying it does not verify it.

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#5 Jun-18-2014 03:03:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11054

Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

Sigh. I was really hoping that we could clear this up.

If any LNP members would like to address this, I'll make a deal.

When the documentary evidence is up then I will take care of the threads that have questioned your validity.

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#6 Jun-18-2014 04:11:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
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Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

Sounds like a fair trade, to me.

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#7 Jun-25-2014 04:02:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11054

Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

So disappointing, seriously. This has been going on so long, I thought this would be a great way to clear up doubts.



One last offer. If you hit the chat link at the top there you can use whatever name you want and your ip is not recorded. Alternately, you can also email one of us to clear this up.

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#8 Jun-25-2014 04:28:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4299
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Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

A fortnight and nothing forthcoming.  If no traditional documentary evidence can be provided, I'd accept DNA evidence, myself.  It would have to be "Population Finder" results from FamilyTreeDNA (or equivalent, such as 23andMe).  No DNAPrint crap.  Or, even Y-chromosome or mtDNA results.  Something.  Anything!

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#9 Jun-25-2014 04:32:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11054

Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

sschkaak wrote:

A fortnight and nothing forthcoming.  If no traditional documentary evidence can be provided, I'd accept DNA evidence, myself.  It would have to be "Population Finder" results from FamilyTreeDNA (or equivalent, such as 23andMe).  No DNAPrint crap.  Or, even Y-chromosome or mtDNA results.  Something.  Anything!

At this point, I'll take a family line or anything to begin with. It is beyond bizarre that they are teaching language, culture, and continuing to go on and on and on and on....

I'll go for the DNA as well. I've submitted mine, but then again I never claimed to be anything let alone do what they are doing.

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#10 Jun-25-2014 04:33:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

sschkaak wrote:

A fortnight and nothing forthcoming.  If no traditional documentary evidence can be provided, I'd accept DNA evidence, myself.  It would have to be "Population Finder" results from FamilyTreeDNA (or equivalent, such as 23andMe).  No DNAPrint crap.  Or, even Y-chromosome or mtDNA results.  Something.  Anything!

They won't find anything, and they know it. So they won't do it. You can't have NDN ancestry when your grandparents were immigrants........without papers....


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
---------------------------------------------------
      Warning:  Some Profanity
This might cause you to experience reason

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#11 Jun-25-2014 04:35:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4299
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Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

Do they really read here?

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#12 Jun-25-2014 04:37:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11054

Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

sschkaak wrote:

Do they really read here?

Several times a day.

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#13 Jun-25-2014 04:41:pm

sschkaak
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Posts: 4299
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Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

neutralsad

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#14 Jun-28-2014 11:26:am

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

You'd think Phil Rice would even come up with something..........hmm


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
---------------------------------------------------
      Warning:  Some Profanity
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#15 Jun-28-2014 10:46:pm

Suckachsinheet
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Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 968

Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

NanticokePiney wrote:

You'd think Phil Rice would even come up with something..........hmm

Now that you mention it... hmm


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#16 Jun-30-2014 09:34:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

Suckachsinheet wrote:

NanticokePiney wrote:

You'd think Phil Rice would even come up with something..........hmm

Now that you mention it... hmm

It needed to be........

   Hey, I'm a DOCUMENTED halfbreed eligible to enroll in all 3 Nanticoke tribes and ( thanks to Frank Speck organizing joint gatherings) the Rappahannock and I don't really give a shit so I'm enrolled in none and and I can't for the life of me wrap around my head why these jokers can't come up with one friggin census or birth certificate.......even a fake one we can tear apart.

Oh....yeah... I'm Wayandaga's grandson and I still don't give a shit if I'm in a tribe........


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
---------------------------------------------------
      Warning:  Some Profanity
This might cause you to experience reason

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#17 Jul-01-2014 10:48:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4299
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Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

I would assume that most, if not all, of these LNP members are relying on family stories of Indian blood--rather than documentary evidence.  I really don't believe that they are simply making this up, for the most part.  However, as my own search for documentary evidence of my supposed Cherokee ancestry came up with nothing, I turned to DNA, which finally PROVED that I have NO American Indian ancestry.  Fortunately, I had no desire to be, or claim to be, an Indian, either racially or culturally, so these results did not surprise me, nor did they alter the way I feel about myself.  Unfortunately, LNP folks have instilled a sense of their "Indian-ness" as the major part of their physical and cultural make-up.  Finding, through DNA testing, that they have little or no American Indian ancestry would be a great blow to their psyches, presumably.  But, I don't understand how they can stand not knowing the truth; and, DNA testing is their only hope of proving their ancestry to themselves, when standard genealogical research fails to do so.  The only reason I can see for keeping their blinders on is to believe themselves and their forbears the tragic victims of U.S. history--rather than being largely the descendants of the perpetrators, at worst, of all the long list of misdeeds against the indigenous people of this country; or, at best, children of the beneficiaries of those misdeeds.  Perhaps, such a status would be just too hard for them to bear.  But, please LNP folks:  Look in the mirror.  Do you REALLY see an Indian there?  When I look at you, I don't.  I hope DNA test results will prove you have some level of Indian ancestry, above statistical "noise."  Absent that, you're only fooling yourselves--and, what's worse, deceiving other non-Indians about who you really are.

By the way, much of what I'm writing, here, is relevant to many members of some federally-recognized tribes, as well.  Most will not do DNA testing because they know what that will show--mainly, that they are racially non-Indian, for the most part.  This doesn't mean that they're not tribal members.  They're just racially non-Indian tribal members.

(Edited as shown in bold type.)

Last edited by sschkaak (Jul-22-2014 10:39:am)

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#18 Jul-01-2014 12:00:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11054

Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

sschkaak wrote:

I would assume that most, if not all, of these LNP members are relying on family stories of Indian blood--rather than documentary evidence.  I really don't believe that they are simply making this up, for the most part.  However, as my own search for documentary evidence of my supposed Cherokee ancestry came up with nothing, I turned to DNA, which finally PROVED that I have NO American Indian ancestry.  Fortunately, I had no desire to be, or claim to be, an Indian, either racially or culturally, so these results did not surprise me, nor did they alter the way I feel about myself.  Unfortunately, LNP folks have instilled a sense of their "Indian-ness" as the major part of their physical and cultural make-up.  Finding, through DNA testing, that they have little or no American Indian ancestry would be a great blow to their psyches, presumably.  But, I don't understand how they can stand not knowing the truth; and, DNA testing is their only hope of proving their ancestry to themselves, when standard genealogical research fails to do so.  The only reason I can see for keeping their blinders on is to believe themselves and their forbears the tragic victims of U.S. history--rather than being largely the descendants of the perpetrators of all the long list of misdeeds against the indigenous people of this country.  Perhaps, that latter status would be just too hard for them to bear.  But, please LNP folks:  Look in the mirror.  Do you REALLY see an Indian there?  When I look at you, I don't.  I hope DNA test results will prove you have some level of Indian ancestry, above statistical "noise."  Absent that, you're only fooling yourselves--and, what's worse, deceiving other non-Indians about who you really are.

By the way, much of what I'm writing, here, is relevant to many members of some federally-recognized tribes, as well.  Most will not do DNA testing because they know what that will show--mainly, that they are racially non-Indian, for the most part.  This doesn't mean that they're not tribal members.  They're just racially non-Indian tribal members.

This is the best post that I have ever seen on this forum.

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#19 Jul-01-2014 01:21:pm

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4299
Website

Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

Better than my "Talking Dog for Sale" post?   neutral

Seriously, Anischi!

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#20 Jul-01-2014 02:51:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11054

Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

But, I was hoping I could buy that dog. Are you telling me that was a joke! sad wink

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#21 Jul-01-2014 11:41:pm

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

tree hugger wrote:

sschkaak wrote:

I would assume that most, if not all, of these LNP members are relying on family stories of Indian blood--rather than documentary evidence.  I really don't believe that they are simply making this up, for the most part.  However, as my own search for documentary evidence of my supposed Cherokee ancestry came up with nothing, I turned to DNA, which finally PROVED that I have NO American Indian ancestry.  Fortunately, I had no desire to be, or claim to be, an Indian, either racially or culturally, so these results did not surprise me, nor did they alter the way I feel about myself.  Unfortunately, LNP folks have instilled a sense of their "Indian-ness" as the major part of their physical and cultural make-up.  Finding, through DNA testing, that they have little or no American Indian ancestry would be a great blow to their psyches, presumably.  But, I don't understand how they can stand not knowing the truth; and, DNA testing is their only hope of proving their ancestry to themselves, when standard genealogical research fails to do so.  The only reason I can see for keeping their blinders on is to believe themselves and their forbears the tragic victims of U.S. history--rather than being largely the descendants of the perpetrators of all the long list of misdeeds against the indigenous people of this country.  Perhaps, that latter status would be just too hard for them to bear.  But, please LNP folks:  Look in the mirror.  Do you REALLY see an Indian there?  When I look at you, I don't.  I hope DNA test results will prove you have some level of Indian ancestry, above statistical "noise."  Absent that, you're only fooling yourselves--and, what's worse, deceiving other non-Indians about who you really are.

By the way, much of what I'm writing, here, is relevant to many members of some federally-recognized tribes, as well.  Most will not do DNA testing because they know what that will show--mainly, that they are racially non-Indian, for the most part.  This doesn't mean that they're not tribal members.  They're just racially non-Indian tribal members.

This is the best post that I have ever seen on this forum.

Awesome Ray!


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
---------------------------------------------------
      Warning:  Some Profanity
This might cause you to experience reason

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#22 Jul-04-2014 07:58:am

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4299
Website

Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

From their website, "Regarding our tribespeople":

It will be so: Only those who are related by blood to the ancestors will be admitted into the tribe.

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#23 Jul-04-2014 08:47:am

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11054

Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

What ancestors?

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#24 Jul-04-2014 08:55:am

sschkaak
Moderator
Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4299
Website

Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

LOL!  I was waiting for that.  Well... Taken in context, Lenape ancestors.  (Of course, Lenape also can mean simply "human being," so that can be cleverly employed, as well.)  I'm going to assume (yes, I know the pitfalls of this word) that they mean American Indian ancestors of what became the Lenni Lenape (Delaware Indian) tribe.

Last edited by sschkaak (Jul-04-2014 08:59:am)

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#25 Jul-07-2014 11:50:am

NanticokePiney
Member
From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Documentary Evidence on the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania.

sschkaak wrote:

From their website, "Regarding our tribespeople":

It will be so: Only those who are related by blood to the ancestors will be admitted into the tribe.

So Bob Ruth is out. He was adopted by Bill, Buster and Larry......


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
---------------------------------------------------
      Warning:  Some Profanity
This might cause you to experience reason

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