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#1 Dec-21-2013 05:11:pm

Chevy
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Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Lenape Language group on Facebook

Lenape Language group on Facebook

http://www.facebook.com/groups/656316907740866/

Learning the Southern Unami Lenape Language

Admins: David Reyes, Peter Torres

known by anyone here??

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#2 Dec-21-2013 06:34:pm

sschkaak
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Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

Not I.

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#3 Dec-21-2013 08:10:pm

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

The only Peter Torres I know is a Taino  from down here. But Torres is a common name......


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
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#4 Dec-21-2013 08:38:pm

sschkaak
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Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

Well...  On the banner of Reyes' page, he shows a photograph of three flags, two of which are those of Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape and the Taino.  He has links to the NLL and Bridgeton, and he was in Vineland a year ago.

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#5 Dec-21-2013 08:43:pm

sschkaak
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Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

I think Torres was the MC at the NLL mini-powwow given at the Black Creek site in Vernon Township, NJ, a few years ago.  I recall that he said he was a Taino.  I think it was him.  Ask Chief Gould.  He was there.  (I didn't get to meet him, though.)

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#6 Dec-21-2013 11:15:pm

Chevy
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Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

Torres says he was born In Orocovis, Puerto Rico.

Thanks, y'all for what you have shared that you do know.

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#7 Dec-22-2013 07:33:am

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

sschkaak wrote:

Well...  On the banner of Reyes' page, he shows a photograph of three flags, two of which are those of Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape and the Taino.  He has links to the NLL and Bridgeton, and he was in Vineland a year ago.

Peter Torres was from Vineland. He was one of Grandpop Wayandaga's inner circle of friends.


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
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#8 Dec-22-2013 08:16:am

sschkaak
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Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

Several years ago, some Taino "Chief" from South Jersey wanted to learn Lenape so he could teach it down there.  He was referred to me, I guess because of the lessons I was giving at that time.  After I told him I was white, he never wrote back.  The same thing happened with one NLL person.  (BTW, two NLL members did take my lesson sets and thanked me.  So, you never know how people are going to react.)

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#9 Dec-22-2013 08:23:am

sschkaak
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Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

Ah!  It's all coming back, now.  This IS the same guy:  "Pedro Guanikeyu Torres, principal chief of the Jatibonicu Taino Tribal Nation of Boriken."

Found it in an old e-mail.

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#10 Dec-22-2013 08:44:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
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Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

Caution:  These two may not be the same person.  Pedro Torres calls himself a gray-haired elder.  This Peter Torres doesn't look that old, to me.  We'll have to sort this out.

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#11 Dec-23-2013 08:05:am

sschkaak
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Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

Nope.  Same guy according to an unimpeachable authority.   wink    So, good luck learning Lenape there.

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#12 Dec-23-2013 10:03:am

NanticokePiney
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From: Hopewell Twp., New Jersey
Registered: Jul-10-2007
Posts: 4214

Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

Lots of people think they can take 3 lessons from Brett and they're Ives Goddard. I mean Brett's good but.....


I don't have anger issues...just violent reactions to B.S.
---------------------------------------------------
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This might cause you to experience reason

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#13 Dec-23-2013 11:43:am

sschkaak
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Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

I hear ya.

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#14 Dec-23-2013 12:29:pm

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11094

Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

Just saving this from the group page.

A GROUP INTRODUCTION, MISSION AND PURPOSE: In The Loving Past Memory And In Spirit of Wenjipahkeehlehkwe (Touching Leaves Woman) Nora Thompson Dean.

Please Note that this new Facebook Lenape language group is a closed group and is mainly open to those whom are enrolled tribal members of the various Lenape tribes, Lenape community groups and those people whom are of Lenni Lenape Native American Indian ancestry.

HEY (HELLO) Lenape,

This new Facebook language group was created on November 29, 2013, with the specific mission on my part in helping to promote, teach and to help sharing information on the Southern Unami dialect of the Lenape Native American Indian language. The Southern Unami Lenape language is one of the Algonquian family group of languages, spoken in various parts of the United States of North America such as in the states of Oklahoma, New Jersey, Delaware Pennsylvania, New York and within the boarding country of Canada.

This new page endeavors to help teach and keep alive the memory and hopes of Elder Nora Thompson Dean in her efforts to teach the future generations of Lenape people their original cultural language. As a past student of the Lenape language and a speaker of three other American Indian languages, I have learned that a language is a part of a living and growing legacy of a past and of a present day living culture of a people and if their language dies so does their cultural identity as an indigenous people.

MY PERSONAL THOUGHTS AND OBSERVATIONS: I have learned throughout the past years that to speak a language one must have first hand information from language teachers, whom have been directly exposed to the traditional culture and language by way of the teachings of the tribal elders of the living spoken language.

Please note that it is stated by some that the Southern Unami Lenape language is an extinct language and that there are no more speakers. Unami Lenape Is Not An Extinct Language!


Wanishi (Thanks)

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#15 Dec-23-2013 04:21:pm

Chevy
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Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

Thanks evabody!!

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#16 Jan-24-2014 03:47:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
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Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

Tried to see how these folks were doing and got the following message, today:

This content is currently unavailable.

The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page.

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#17 Jan-25-2014 10:09:am

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11094

Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

I got the same thing today. They must have shut it down.

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#18 Aug-23-2014 05:57:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
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Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

"Wenjipahkeehlehkwe (Touching Leaves Woman) Nora Thompson Dean."

I just noticed that they spelled Mrs. Dean's Lenape name incorrectly.  It should be Weenjipahkihelexkwe.  Their spelling doesn't make sense in Southern Unami.

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#19 Dec-22-2014 06:22:pm

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11094

Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

sschkaak wrote:

Several years ago, some Taino "Chief" from South Jersey wanted to learn Lenape so he could teach it down there.  He was referred to me, I guess because of the lessons I was giving at that time.  After I told him I was white, he never wrote back.  The same thing happened with one NLL person.  (BTW, two NLL members did take my lesson sets and thanked me.  So, you never know how people are going to react.)

NanticokePiney wrote:

Lots of people think they can take 3 lessons from Brett and they're Ives Goddard. I mean Brett's good but.....

Then why don't they care that Brett is white, or at the very least has questionable ancestry???  He's now in charge of teaching language, culture and one of the "family".

Direct quote from Brett Mezger below.. I'll follow with screenshots at a later time.

I am not Aravaipa, I am Mescalero, Walnut Clan, family was from New Mexico Rez, but move to Arizona when I was young.  My Grandfather was a Traditionalist and grandmother was "converted", thats who raised me.  My Grandfather studied medicine with Delawares from Kansas, Indiana, and Oklahoma, as well as with the Lakota(this is why I got involved in the Sundance).  This was because of politics among the Apache People at that time, and other reasons, but anyway he became  accepted among the traditionalists that were around then, later became a Roadman.  When I got older I started looking into my fathers side of the family and found 2 Delaware lines, Niecly and Round Bottom, couldn't trace where they were but I think Canada, probably Munsee, but I was not into the geneology and was accepted by the Delaware folks, learned that culture and am still learning the language.

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#20 Dec-22-2014 08:52:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
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Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

TH wrote:

"Then why don't they care that Brett is white, or at the very least has questionable ancestry???"

I suppose it depends on who "they" are.  As I said, two people did take my lessons. 


lenape wrote:

"I started looking into my fathers side of the family and found 2 Delaware lines, Niecly and Round Bottom..."

There was a fellow who posted at the old lenapeculture forum [Suckachsinheet's forum] named Dennis Knicely.  He claimed to be Lenape, but never provided any evidence of it.  Knicely is just a variant of Niecly, Nicely, etc.  It's an old German surname.  Of course, that doesn't mean some Lenapes didn't use it, too.

Roundbottom is also an English surname.  Again, that doesn't mean Indians didn't adopt it, too.

Last edited by sschkaak (Dec-24-2014 05:10:pm)

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#21 Dec-22-2014 09:25:pm

Suckachsinheet
Member
Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 968

Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

tree hugger wrote:

Direct quote from Brett Mezger below.. I'll follow with screenshots at a later time.

I am not Aravaipa, I am Mescalero, Walnut Clan, family was from New Mexico Rez, but move to Arizona when I was young.  My Grandfather was a Traditionalist and grandmother was "converted", thats who raised me.  My Grandfather studied medicine with Delawares from Kansas, Indiana, and Oklahoma, as well as with the Lakota(this is why I got involved in the Sundance).  This was because of politics among the Apache People at that time, and other reasons, but anyway he became  accepted among the traditionalists that were around then, later became a Roadman.  When I got older I started looking into my fathers side of the family and found 2 Delaware lines, Niecly and Round Bottom, couldn't trace where they were but I think Canada, probably Munsee, but I was not into the geneology and was accepted by the Delaware folks, learned that culture and am still learning the language.

And if all of that is true, when did he find time to hang with Sam Hanna on his family's farm (from another thread)...


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#22 Dec-25-2014 12:10:pm

tree hugger
Site Admin
Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11094

Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

That's exactly my point.. both can not be true. I can place him in Pa growing up, and not just with one source either. Legally documented.

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#23 Dec-25-2014 09:45:pm

Suckachsinheet
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Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 968

Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

And, of course, I can't find that assertion anymore either...sad


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#24 Dec-27-2014 08:40:am

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11094

Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

Suckachsinheet wrote:

And, of course, I can't find that assertion anymore either...sad

This one?


http://www.woodlandindians.org/forums/v … 601#p21601

lenape wrote:

sschkaak wrote:

Okay.  Here's the problem.  How does one reconcile the testimony of two separate vital records? 

On Sam Hannah's Ohio death record, it says he died at 71 years of age in 1996, his race was "Native American" and that he was born in "Oklahoma."  It gives his mother's surname as "Bybee."  However, on the 1930 federal census of Ohio, Samuel Hannah, Jr., 5 years old, is listed as "white" and as being born in "Kentucky."  He and his mother, "Ethel Hannah," were living in the household of Sam's grandfather, "David Bybee."  The whole family was born in "Kentucky," and Sam's father is listed as being born in "Kentucky," too. 

This is a major hurdle to overcome, if one is to believe Sam Hannah was who he said he was.  I'm not saying it can't, but I can't see how.

(Be glad to furnish copies of these records to anyone interested.)

That is interesting, would not venture to guess how this came about, I can only go on his word and the words of those who knew him and what they said, one of which being Nora, who knew him when he was in OK, another is a Creek friend who knew both of them and even lived next door to Sam as a child, in Oklahoma.  Others as well "claim" to have known him while he was living there.  As to being listed as white, anyone who actually knew him knew he was not "white", no was he seen as such among the Native Communities, and organizations that he was associated with. I know that Sam lived in Kentucky shortly after he left our farm, in the 70's. As I said, I don't have an answer regarding these documents, nor do I doubt what you say Sschkaak, just can say what I know of him, who he was affiliated with and how he was seen, and like many other "political" figures in the Native Communities, some loved him and some hated him, others yet swear he never existed.  My thoughts on those why did no one question him before he died, he was in the "spotlight" from the 1940's on with Native political issues and his community was not "hidden", he was well accepted in OK when out there, as well up in NY/Canada when there. 
Just my 2 cents, i don't mean to offend anyone...

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#25 Dec-27-2014 08:42:pm

Suckachsinheet
Member
Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 968

Re: Lenape Language group on Facebook

Yep. That'd be the one. I must have read right over that when I reviewed the thread... roll


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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